Forum - View topicANNCast - Tongue in Cheek
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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Huh. I always thought that they were always being a little too tactful for fear of backlash. It doesn't bother me, but I get the impression that (with respect to certain anime at least) they don't really go quite as far as they want to because they think they would (and almost certainly would) get ripped on for it. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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No, it really isn't. |
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GhostOfSide3
Posts: 75 Location: Memphis, TN |
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Love the podcast. I'm a relatively new listener but I've also went back and listened to those "Revenge of the Decade shows" and I really loved those. I would definitely check out podcasts where you guys made a "best of" kind of thing with.
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penguintruth
Posts: 8489 Location: Penguinopolis |
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The decade shows have always been the best.
Oh, and whenever Tim Eldred or Mike Toole show up. Fountains of knowledge. |
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Well, we ARE opinionated guys who have been doing this for years and years (me, personally, this year marks my 20th year of being an anime fan). We both love the good stuff still, and a lot, and I think the show reflects that. But the truth is, it takes a lot to impress us, and I am personally given to being an ornery f--k. We do have a tendancy to be brusque, particularly when met with an opinion or a show that we consider poorly thought-out. After a long time of living this stuff day and night, that does grate on you. We are a couple of old-timer curmudgeons. That is who we are. The show is a casual reflection of who we are, and is truthful, and if we changed that, we would be phony and the show would be pretty lame because it would be based on pretense -- we wouldn't be able to back up our opinions very deeply because we don't really believe them. Nobody benefits from dishonest conversation. Perhaps you should listen to another show if what you're really after is the otaku equivalent of "Ellen." I don't think Zac or I are capable of delivering the nice, always-appreciative, always-accepting show you seem to want. |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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Well, that's a very disappointing response. You could have taken the opportunity to clarify your approach to the podcast, cleared up any misunderstandings I might have had about your disposition, or asked for clarification to see whether my criticism had any merit from your vantage point. For someone who doles out strong criticism, I would have hoped for a more constructive approach to receiving it.
LOL, it feels like good cop/bad cop of a sudden, and as corny as this response might sound after my reply to Zac, I do appreciate your honesty and straightforwardness (from both of you, even in the podcast). ...LORDY that sounded corny, I apologize for that. But anyways, if that brusque, sometimes curmudgeony approach is how you both really want to approach the show, I can respect that. All I wanted was to give some honest feedback, based on my own disposition and how I react to/perceive the show. It might have been positive feedback for you both if it had turned out that coming across as sometimes having grated nerves wasn't your intent (like the blind spots in a Johari window), but now that I know it's something of a natural disposition for you both and that you're embracing that candid, blunt style for the podcast, it at least clarifies my own understanding. I do plan to continue listening to the podcasts from time to time, simply because they really are very informative and insightful, but I may make more of a habit to lower the volume when I reach disagreeable sections. And I suppose my "Ellen" anime podcast of choice would be the AnimeNation Podcast, which seems a bit more friendly and light-hearted, at least in a way that better aligns with my disposition. |
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noblesse oblige
Posts: 280 Location: Florida |
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I get where Kikaioh is coming from. I, too, really enjoy the insight that is provided in the podcasts, but I also feel like Justin and Zac's disillusionment with the industry (as justifiable as it may be) can be really disheartening and tends to temper my enthusiasm for a medium in which I haven't yet reached that point of disillusionment. Zac, you spoke of a contact high in regard to Coachella....well the podcasts to some degree carry a contact low.
But I don't blame them for it. I respect and admire their dedication to providing objective information and personal insights while staying true to their opinions, which is what listeners are tuning in for in the first place. As long as we're on the topic of tempered enthusiasm..... I found myself wondering, during the portion of the show where you guys were discussing instances of an anime making you cry, whether or not viewing those titles in the presence of other people tempers your emotional response or in any way alters your viewing experience? |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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The reason I didn't give you more of a response is because the "criticism" you're giving me is, inherently, not something I can actually do anything about. It isn't constructive, it's quite personal. You have a problem with my disposition and don't like that the way I express myself doesn't appear to leave room for your opinions, but you aren't part of the show and I don't naturally speak passively or vaguely. Let's be realistic - what real-world response should I have to this criticism? I need to be happier? More upbeat? Should I smile when speaking so you can hear the joy bubbling out of me like a fountain of mirth? Shall I be sure to express my opinions with a "well, some might disagree, I could be wrong" at the end of each sentence, so you feel more like you're being included? Would you like me to email you the week's topics before we tape, so I can get your take on them, and then make sure to read your opposing view on the air, so you feel more represented in a program I haven't invited you to personally participate in? How do I correct my manner of speaking so one particular listener feels more represented when I'm expressing myself? It's a real puzzle. And believe me, I'm not saying this simply to deflect. I'm trying to unpack what exactly it is you're saying to me, and responding to what the actual criticism is and realistically what in the world a solution to it would be. Trying to find constructive, meaningful feedback or perhaps even help improving the show in what you're saying, and instead finding mostly that I'm a downer and you don't like that. Here's how I read what you're saying, and I don't think this interpretation is particularly off the mark: I cannot be the person you're asking me to be, and so you'll take what nuggets of value you can from my show while tolerating my negative cynical personality, which you wish were different so the podcast would help you feel good. As you can see, this is criticism I cannot actually do anything about. Your issue is basically that you don't like the show's hosts. I can't change who I am in order to make you enjoy the show more. Our responses to things are not manufactured or filtered, they aren't heightened, we're not playing characters, this is who we are. I can understand how you'd think that your criticism might have value or meaning if we were simply playing roles that we could adjust so you enjoy the performance more, but it isn't a performance, so I can't do that for you. I hope you understand what I'm saying here and I do apologize if I expressed it in a manner that upset you. Unfortunately, I'm the bad cop. |
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Soundmonkey44
Posts: 1243 |
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In relation to the podcast.... i'm a softy when it comes to animation & comics... many an anime & toon have brought tears to my eyes.
Manly tears. In relation to some other posts, I've always found Zac to be the more positive of the two on the podcast, I don't see why anyone would think he's always being sarcastic or claim he needs to be more upbeat. But thats just my opinion. |
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Penguin_Factory
Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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Dude, come on. If you're bothered by someone expressing their opinion "brusquely" that's your problem. Seriously, you don't have a right to go through life without ever being exposed to something that might offend you. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Also, I wanted to thank everyone in this thread listing their favorite episodes. It really does make us feel good about producing the show, and we really do appreciate each and every one of you for listening.
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Tanteikingdomkey
Posts: 2348 |
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We listen because we feel you guys do the best anime industry podcast out there and it is one of the best anime podcast in general. BTW I saw a video were stu levy said he would go on ANN cast when someone asked him (he could have been lying though) |
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Surrender Artist
Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I appreciate and enjoy the way that Zac and Justin talk on the show. If they blunted or softened themselves, it would probably be a less engaging show, damage their rapport and lose distinctiveness. They rough things I like up now and again, but that's just the cost of variety, which I'm fine with paying.
------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll miss 30 Rock too. It was a remarkable series and really recovered nicely in its last season. I liked the finale plenty. I'll miss the Thursday night one-two punch of 30 Rock and Community, but it's best that it goes out on its own terms. Somebody (Discotek!) needs to license Angel Cop and promote as, "from the writer of Fullmetal Alchemist!" I've cried at quite a few anime. Truthfully, I've done it more and sought it more as I've grown older. Being afraid or unwilling to cry is so adolescent or tediously macho.' Although, that has made me a bit picky about it. Angel Beats gave me thirteen episodes of tragic teenagers and the only time it affected me as might have been intended was in the finale, which it promptly stomped on by milking it. The ending of The Time Stranger made me cry too, although there was a touch of triumph to it that made the feeling curiously mixed. Now and Then, Here and There got me as well and seems to more and more each time. (I seem to rewatch it every two or three years... which is about as man can tolerate) One of my first experiences with a strong emotional response to an anime, which I had some trouble dealing with at the time because it happened when I was in high school, was the ending of episode seven of Cowboy Bebop, "Waltz for Venus." That last scene of Spike leaving the hospital, walking through the falling grey ash seeds as "Stella by Moor" plays lays me low every time. Episode 23 of Trigun, "Paradise", is pretty emotionally intense all the way through, but that final scene and monolog in the church makes me tear up a little just thinking of it. Episode two of Kino's Journey made me weep with joy at how awesome it was. How about series that didn't bring about the tears, but had a strong emotional effect that made you deeply disturbed or upset? To quote Franz Kafka...
That's a rarer effect and the only times I think I have close to it with anime are episode nine of SaiKano, "Akemi," and episode ten of Figure 17, "Can the Heart Be Passed On." "Akemi" had an uncomfortable mix of loss, dehumanization and confusion that affected me in a way I can't quite describe, but as soon as the credits rolled, I had to stop the series and go take a walk. "Can the Heart Be Passed On," is the culmination of an emotional arc of the series and there's one scene near the heart of the episode where characters and their irreconcilable feelings confront one another in a simple, raw way that just tore me up inside. I'll grant that I was feeling pretty lowly at the time, which might have made me particularly susceptible, but I think its merit stands even in more stable states of mind.
Well, I think you named a lot of them already: Carl Macek, Jake Adelstein and Chad Kime all seem like exceptional choices. Let me see... "Late Night with Helen McCarthy" was pretty recent, but she was such a fascinating and engaging guest that it deserves mention. I liked "Moe Money, Moe Problems" because I felt it was a good panel and an interesting, albeit fraught subject. It might be cliche for me, but I liked "S-E-X-X-I-S-M"; it was an interesting conversation and one worth having. It's a subject that might be worth revisiting if you could find another new angle or sufficiently different panel. Another obvious one is "Horn in the USA", because he just has so much to talk about. I liked hearing from the depths of the translation business in "Flanagan's Rainbow". "OveraChivers was full of fascinating information about the practices, attitudes and business of the Japanese animation industry. I'm listening to "Jonathan Taliesin's Excellent Adventure" and really enjoying hearing their perspective on English dubbing, including the story of Arucard. I would like to hear from the Sentai Filmworks people, but if they won't play, they won't play. How about John Sirabella. Hah-AH. I amuse myself. More seriously, I think it would be neat if you could talk to somebody who worked with Animaze in their glory days or with Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, whose contributions to English dubs (directing Cowboy Bebop and playing Motoko Kusanagi, for Chrissakes!) might well be worth talking about. Somebody from the Ocean Group might be interesting too, but I have no idea how feasible that would be. I would like to hear from a scholar or other informed person who could explain and analyze the storytelling conventions of anime as well their differences from western conventions. Somebody who could discuss the different practices, methods and styles of Japanese as compared to Japanese animation could be fascinating. Something that might not broad appeal that I'd enjoy would be hearing from somebody who could explain Japanese business practices in further detail or historical terms as well. An episode about the beliefs, politics and psychology of Japanese otaku could be very interesting as well. Last edited by Surrender Artist on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:01 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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kawaiibunny3
Posts: 534 Location: Houston, Texas |
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There's alot of good episodes over the years, but I hafta mention that some of my favorites are some of the early ones like:
Weeaboo Weekend- I like all the anecdotes in this one the story you tell about the "over-achiever" in your old Japanese class in college made me laugh so bad. I was on a bus listening to it and I burst out laughing and got some strange looks. so thanks for that Surrounded by Sevakises - Robin is really funny, please invite her back. It was also interesting to hear her stories as an artist. The Life and Kime of Geneon, USA - like you said in this episode, it was really amazing to hear all those stories from behind the scenes at Geneon. There's so many actually. I wish it was easier for me to explain why though |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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I'm not giving you criticism because I expect you to change --- I'm giving criticism so that you have a sense for how people might feel about your show in case you don't know, and so that you can change how you approach the show if you want to in ways that you feel are appropriate. I'm just a listener and I don't know you personally, so there's not really a way for me to know with absoluteness that in real life you're an unchangeable curmudgeon (I sort of do now though ). In which case, I just wanted to let you know on the forums that that's the impression I get from the podcast, and that it hurt my enjoyability. After all, it's possible that all along you might have been mis-communicating yourself on the podcast, wanting to be informative, entertaining and honest but not realizing people instead found you annoyed and grumpy. If that had been the case, it would have been helpful information for you, so that you could take a look at how you communicate yourself and (if you were willing) figure out ways to better relay the message you really intend. Though, it's clear now that being grumpy and annoyed is the way you really are, and that's how you want to communicate yourself. And that's fine. It at least gives me a better picture of what you and the podcast are all about, and helps me to make a more informed decision about whether I want to continue listening or not. My criticism may not have helped you any, but it at least helped me.
You're right, it is my problem. I only mentioned it here in case he didn't intend to be so brusque, in which case it would have been his problem too, and would have been helpful for him to know. I'm not at all asking him to change on my behalf, I'm letting him know my opinion so he can change if he wants to. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and many artists and entertainers encourage that kind of interaction with their audience. Zac just isn't one of those types of hosts I guess. |
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