Forum - View topicMaoyū (TV).
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I think Theron is probably very glad I didn't watch this episode lol. We would probably be in a lengthy argument by now, or at least he would have to put up with one of my rants. Meh, I guess this is another reason it's probably for the best that I didn't stick with this show. I said early on that this show might have the effect of making me "nostalgic" for SAO, even with how much I criticized that show. Well, the rose colored glasses are gradually coming on and someday, if we get more Maoyus, I might pine for the day when we could have a quality fantasy series like SAO, lol. |
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getchman
 Space CowboyPosts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
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I figure its just Arms doing what they do best, and that wasn't really an ending. Just another whacky night at the villa. Considering no one had their clothes blown off, no one was brutally mutilated and Hero did not go around stealing girls panties while they were still wearing them, a marshmallow hell seems kinda trivial
Last edited by getchman on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Actually, I have to think that you would have less objections to this series overall than you did to SAO. Sure, there's an occasional scene here and there that would doubtless rankle you, but there's none of the Gary Stu content, female characters aren't being rescued by male characters left and right, and the focus is more on the female characters being driving forces in events than on Hero. In fact, Hero, for all of his power, is really only effective in the background for much of the series and spends most of the series acting on the orders of Demon Queen. And as for the quasi-harem aspect in the series, which admittedly I could have done without: at least in this case it makes sense, as he's portrayed as being a handsome and personable guy who's easily one of the most powerful beings in either world. Why wouldn't someone like that attract a lot of female attention? (And I'd point out that you were completely wrong in your initial assumptions that Big Sister Maid would fall for him, too. She never did.) |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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Meh, I still assumed Big Sister Maid was just some nice eye candy for him anyway, just like the rest of them (yes including Little Sister Maid - I fully believe she is there representing the token loli character. Not that I am criticizing the existence of such characters, but I do think she fills that role.) I will say that the point you make about Hero playing a little more of a back seat role in comparison to Kirito of SAO does give Maoyu more uniqueness to it. I think sometimes having a main protagonist who plays a largely supporting role is a pretty fantastic way of playing with people's expectations, and something that I am hoping to see more of in anime. Magi has been playing that tune pretty excellently since its run started, for example. However, that being said, I think the biggest upside to SAO which is also my biggest downside in Maoyu is use of the fantasy content... fantastical stories, events, monsters, scenery, races, sword and sorcery, action, etc... SAO often delivered on those things, even when its plot and character development were suffering. I felt like Maoyu just wasn't delivering on much other than the Spice and Wolf style economic and food production discussions, which are interesting, but I'm hesitant to think lightning can strike twice with the Spice and Wolf concept. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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And I agree that lightning doesn't strike twice here. Really, though, this series and S&W are different enough conceptually that the economic focus and repeat use of lead VAs is all that really connects them, which is why putting a lot of weight on comparisons between the two annoys me. S&W was a characters study with the economics as the setting; Maoyu is a story about economics with the character study as a backdrop. S&W plays out on a very personal scale in individual story arcs, whereas Maoyu plays out on grand scale in one large arc. S&W uses a cast of two, with one or two prominent add-ons per story arc; Maoyu has its leads merely standing at the center of a sizable ensemble.
Now, as for the lighter use of true fantasy content, although I think you have a point there, I also think you're underestimating what Maoyu has on that front. We do see demons running around, magic use, swordplay, and so forth. Admittedly the magical elements aren't heavily used until the late episodes, but they're still there. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I think you make good points on these distinctions. I generally agree with the first one about economics with character study as backdrop v character study with economics as backdrop. I also agree with the last one about use of cast. However, the middle one I think is a lot more iffy. It is true that Maoyu had a lot more going on in its world than Spice and Wolf did, but from what I can tell, we rarely really got to go in depth on any of that other stuff that was going on in Maoyu. It seemed mostly superficial. Everything still seemed to revolve around what the main 2 demon and human female/male combo were doing. This is not like for example, Twelve Kingdoms where you have a clear protagonist who is the center of a massive epic, yet are constantly allowed to experience the other stories and tragedies and triumphs of various other actors throughout the fantasy world. This aspect in Maoyu seemed to be mostly window dressing and the main thing driving it was the provincial matters being dealt with by the main characters. The above being said though, I don't think the distinctions completely separate Maoyu from Spice and Wolf, they just make it a more different take on this "demon girl + human man walking the earth together in a mildly romantic relationship, dealing with economics and stuff" theme. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I am so pissed off right now. Just finished the final episode, I wanted to rate this highly but objectively it only deserves a So-so.
It did do some things really well. - The setup was great; not just novel, but actually intelligent and with incredible potential. - Maoyu herself was a fascinating character. - The themes were good, like what it means to be human. - The areas focused on - like religion and war and capitalism and agriculture - were interesting. - Liked how the characters were doing cool stuff like organising a rebellion but trying to win their independence through simple food and trade. - The very pretty art style and period-appropriate music were enjoyable. But though the show had so much going for it, so much potential and such good ingredients, it almost descended into a trainwreck. - The timeskips were like WTF. Yes, a plan like Maoyu's takes years to come to fruition, but felt the timeskips were missing out too many important details. And the characters were not evolving, despite such large passages of time passing. - Too many characters. Like, Maoyu and Knight's students become important players but we don't even know who they are; by that I mean they got pathetic screentime before being thrust into the limelight. The fat noble kid suddenly became the financial minister, the young soldier became a general, yet for all the important stuff they were doing we didn't really know them. These once-minor characters are now key players but they still only have the depth of minor characters. - Maoyu being possessed was awful. As someone said before me, weren't the demons supposed to be ordinary beings like the rest of us? So why are all previous demon lords automatically evil? And why the heck does the ritual mean that Maoyu have to be possessed by them? - All the main characters had pasts that were barely alluded to, except of course the two young maids. In the case of Hero it wasn't too important, although I would have liked to see more of his upbringing so that we could understand his idealistic naive nature better. Maoyu was a gross offender; here was this girl who perceived the world in completely different ways than everyone around her, and yet all we see of her younger self is one short scene? I wanted so badly to know how she came to the conclusions she did and what spurred her to come up with her plan. And of course there's her friendship with Knight, which just kind of happens out of thin air. - Mage - a complex character - was incompetently handled. And she was taking orders from Maoyu this whole time . . . how the heck did those two meet? Also, Hero's search for her was also badly done. He goes off to look for her, then somehow finds himself having saved numerous races and ensuring that Gate City is peaceful. But what about Mage, the whole reason he started his quest? He gives up trying to find her without (IIRC) nary a mention why. - Maoyu and Hero lacked chemistry. Well, okay, they had some, but not enough. They make a cute couple but not a convincing one. What really irks me the most is that they claim they are so in love with one another despite so little screentime together, i.e. such a scant foundation for their love. On a side note, I did find it a little creepy that when they met Maoyu was in her thirties whereas Hero was only fifteen. And Knight, she was clearly older than Hero too. One does not become an abbess when you're a teen, and she looked, sounded and acted like someone in her mid twenties. - Too many loose plot threads, including some cliffhanger bombshells. This story was obviously unfinished yet it didn't even wrap up the season tidily. I am annoyed it only got one cour, this should have been a twenty-four episode show. - The story - and the storytelling - were all over the place. I hate to say it, because this is going to sound petty, but I can really tell that the story was written by a group of people. If I didn't already know it was from 2ch, if you told me now then I wouldn't be surprised. Too many ideas, too many characters (the one-eyed villain attacking the town was unnecessary), no consistency and overarching plan over what got covered and when. Reminds me of Toru Nanamine; if you've watched or read Bakuman you'll know what I'm referring to. - I was disappointed that Maoyu tried to solve many problems by just porting over technology from the Demon World. Sure, the potatoes were an excellent idea, and the compass is highly plausible. But the ability to eradicate smallpox? The firearm? The printing press? The Demon World didn't look that advanced. Did any demons ever wield firearms when fighting humans, because I don't remember any such scenes? - Silly love elements. Look, I get that Hero would be a very eligible bachelor - as the most powerful warrior in the world, every princess would be after his genes - but the petty love comedy elements felt out-of-place and ate up valuable screentime. I don't mind Maoyu wearing low-cut tops, but her constant "useless flesh" gripes, and the battle between her and Knight, just wore thin and undermined what were otherwise two very confident, resourceful, talented, and able women. I so wanted to love this show, and I think I still do. Which explains why I'm so livid at how badly it was handled. You can assemble all the finest ingredients you want, but if the chef is incompetent and burns everything then it ain't gonna taste nice, ya know? This had the potential to surpass Spice & Wolf, yet . . . ugh. Based on my enjoyment alone this would have gotten a rating of Very Good, but unfortunately, my ratings are based on actual quality, not superficial enjoyment. So to reiterate, I must reluctantly give this a rating of So-so. |
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Riddley
 Posts: 536 Location: Ireland |
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I don't know why you do that to yourself, dtm42.
Quality in entertainment is completely subjective. If you enjoyed something, then be damned about the little nitpicking crap. No show is going to be perfect. Even Masterpieces like Spirited Away or, imho, Anohana are not going to be perfect to everyone or even perfect technically, but to me they are Masterpieces. It's the same way with video games or music. Some people believe Lady Gaga is the cream of the crop (shudder). I agree with you on most of your points about Maoyu, but I still rated it Very Good because I enjoyed the show. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Quality is not subjective. Just because I like something does not make it good, and vice versa.
Did I like Maoyu? Yes, and I'm glad I watched it. It was not a waste of time. But I'm not going to call it good when it isn't. Sure, it definitely has parts that are very strong, but also other parts that are quite weak. Overall it is pretty much bang in the middle. Besides, while I am furious with it for squandering all that incredible potential, that's not my fault. I'm not the one who dropped the ball, it did. But thanks for your feedback, I do appreciate it. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I do think there is a difference between (1) liking a show because it is entertaining and accomplishes the things that it set out to accomplish, and (2) liking a show only because there was entertainment, even though it failed at accomplishing what it set out to. I'm assuming dtm falls into the second category there. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize a show that you like for entertainment purposes. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
Maoyu didn't just entertain me, it was very smart and stirred the imagination. I'd never even thought of ending a war just by removing the economic reasons for that war to exist in the first place, but this story made a convincing case that it was at least plausible. I guess I'm option (3): I was entertained by it, and I liked what it set out to do. I respected what it wanted to be. But I criticise the way in which it went about it, and how it failed and lost its way. Maoyu had a great premise which showed huge promise, but poor execution let it down. |
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Treiz
 Posts: 121 |
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Looks like I'm late to the party. I spent the last few days digging through CR to find something to watch and when I saw this being compared to S&W that was all I needed to hear.
Over all I really enjoyed the show, my only complaint has already been covered, that the short run time led to some time skips that bypassed what undoubtedly would have been fun eps. I came here to see if there was any news about the show getting licensed, I imagine it's just a matter of time. |
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