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ThatMoonGuy
Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 364
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:18 pm
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His criticism kinda reminds me of the criticism around the "good vibes" and "well being" movements which, while valid up to certain point, tend to focus way too much on internal, individual change while ignoring any type of action. "The boy reaches the girl but never touches her crotch" is a very rough way of putting it but I can understand the metaphor and think it's pretty ingenious.
I do like Makoto Shinkai as a director but it's true that his characters exist in an idealized world untouchable by the dirt of the world. Looking at it from a certain perspective it does feel a little too bourgeoisie, I suppose.
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Frog-kun
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 10 Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:20 pm
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fathomlessblue wrote: | Considering the absurdity for which Tomino is often known for, his thoughts here come across as surprisingly lucid and articulate. I suspect he heard the backlash against his initial comments and actually gave some thought in wording his opinions more carefully this time around. |
I doubt this. Given how the publishing process normally works, the interview itself was probably conducted weeks or even months ago. If Tomino retread similar ground it's probably because Shinkai has been on his mind in general lately.
It's also possible that he elaborated on his thoughts in the original Playboy interview as well, but that was cut in order to fit the page limit. Tomino has a reputation for having quite a lot to say.
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fathomlessblue
Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 348
Location: Manchester, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:29 pm
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Frog-kun wrote: |
fathomlessblue wrote: | Considering the absurdity for which Tomino is often known for, his thoughts here come across as surprisingly lucid and articulate. I suspect he heard the backlash against his initial comments and actually gave some thought in wording his opinions more carefully this time around. |
I doubt this. Given how the publishing process normally works, the interview itself was probably conducted weeks or even months ago. If Tomino retread similar ground it's probably because Shinkai has been on his mind in general lately.
It's also possible that he elaborated on his thoughts in the original Playboy interview as well, but that was cut in order to fit the page limit. Tomino has a reputation for having quite a lot to say. |
Thanks for the heads up.
Although now i'm trying to imagine what editing a Tomino interview would actually be like.
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Hellsoldier
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 755
Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:58 pm
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You know, with all due respect to Shinkai, I think I understand what Shinkai is trying to say.
The first interview on this topic was hard for me to understand. I didn't even care to think hard about what he was saying. He, like Miyazaki, is known to say a considerable quantity of rubbish.
I think he nailed it this time around though.
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Panino Manino
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 739
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:11 pm
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I was talking about this matter with other people and had a little realization.
When Tomino talks about "sex", and the lack of sex, are people thinking that "we" just want to sex the characters making sex on screen? Nudity and obscenity?
It's not that!
When I watched this new Shinkai's movie and give my thoughts about, I mentioned that "I had watched Penguin Highway and that was a better movie in all regards". It's funny realizing this now but Penguin Highway despite having a much younger cast... have "sex" in it's story, you know?
Even with this important element it's still considered a "family movie", so people, it's that impossible, authors can work this "tabu" in their stories if they try.
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Banjo
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 779
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:09 pm
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in most countries you just can't change reality.. and nippon is no different.. its noirmal for people around the world to find joy watching/reading stories that takes them away from their fated real life.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 3017
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:44 pm
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Zeino wrote: | Except Tomino here believes that it's not really possible to really change the world with said emotions and people should just muddle through their lives as best they can while doing small helpful acts. That is a defeatist attitude exactly as the interview called it. |
Sure, but to borrow Beatdigga's terminology:
Beatdigga wrote: | There’s this disdain for escapism, this desire to shove people’s faces in the dirt and grime of reality and go “this is here. It’s not going away. Do something.” A more cynical person would call the approach foreboding or nihilism. |
I don't see why it's hypocritical for a director who made many escapist works promoting the sentiment that "this is here, it's not going away, do something, even though it probably won't really matter in the long run" to say that another director's escapist works promote the sentiment that "this is here, it's not going away, just persevere and look inwards for happiness". There's a lot of room for debate about which of those two messages is more uplifting to the human spirit.
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Mizuki-Takashima
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 215
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Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:23 am
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Uhh Snow White was 13 years old my guy
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12skippy21
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 785
Location: York, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:38 am
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Panino Manino wrote: | I was talking about this matter with other people and had a little realization.
When Tomino talks about "sex", and the lack of sex, are people thinking that "we" just want to sex the characters making sex on screen? Nudity and obscenity?
It's not that!
When I watched this new Shinkai's movie and give my thoughts about, I mentioned that "I had watched Penguin Highway and that was a better movie in all regards". It's funny realizing this now but Penguin Highway despite having a much younger cast... have "sex" in it's story, you know?
Even with this important element it's still considered a "family movie", so people, it's that impossible, authors can work this "tabu" in their stories if they try. |
I imagine it is not necessarily the visceral ‘sex’ we want, but a crescendo, or to use a different term, orgasm, of the involved emotions. That fact remains as a consumerist culture you focus on the immediate release rather than the journey to get there.
In those cute Shoujo romances you focus on them holding hands, kissing and so on, forgetting the fact that emotional foreplay is what makes the story not the fact they do it at the end of the story.
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Panino Manino
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 739
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Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:58 pm
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12skippy21 wrote: |
I imagine it is not necessarily the visceral ‘sex’ we want, but a crescendo, or to use a different term, orgasm, of the involved emotions. That fact remains as a consumerist culture you focus on the immediate release rather than the journey to get there.
In those cute Shoujo romances you focus on them holding hands, kissing and so on, forgetting the fact that emotional foreplay is what makes the story not the fact they do it at the end of the story. |
"Emotional foreplay".
So, to some degree, sexual desire? But strange enough it's like the two youngs that wants to be together so much that they even put the whole world at risk feels no physical desire for each other. "It's true love!"
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:59 pm
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Cardcaptor Takato wrote: | If I'm entirely honest, I'm not sure I understand why there is this current trend in journalist interviews of asking older directors what they think of modern directors and pop culture trends. |
That type of interview question is stirring the drama pot and it is done to get more clicks for the Japanese website. Both men may work on anime but one makes space military shows while the other makes innocent romance movies so besides animation enthusiasts they are for different audiences. Yoshiyuki Tomino has done a great deal for anime with his work on Gundam but it doesn't make any difference what he thinks about a director who makes innocent romance movies.
Mizuki-Takashima wrote: | Uhh Snow White was 13 years old my guy |
13 or 14 is the guess that is used for the original folklore story but no age is mentioned for the character in the Disney movie. One of the main messages of the Snow White story was to warn against being jealous of the beauty of young women and the Grimm brothers thought the folklore story was overly tragic so they changed mother to stepmother when they added the story to their book. Also he was wrong but that is because he didn't say Cinderella.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4845
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Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:14 pm
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Quote: |
That type of interview question is stirring the drama pot and it is done to get more clicks for the Japanese website. Both men may work on anime but one makes space military shows while the other makes innocent romance movies so besides animation enthusiasts they are for different audiences. Yoshiyuki Tomino has done a great deal for anime with his work on Gundam but it doesn't make any difference what he thinks about a director who makes innocent romance movies.
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It’s not just Japanese sites but American pop culture sites have been doing this too where they’ll ask auteur directors their thoughts on Marvel knowing full well they’ll likely have a more critical outlook of the films, then quote mine what they say for a sensationalist headline that leaves out their more nuanced response. Shinkai seems to have become the Japanese version of this. I remember awhile ago Suzuki of Ghibli fame was also asked about Shinkai back when Your Name came out.
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