Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Vivy -Fluorite Eye's Song-
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7777ale7777
Posts: 105 |
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I understood it as the singing being just the same in both performances. Vivy said that she expected Ophelia to "blow that rehersal out of the water" with an audience in front of her. So she's not saying that it's worse, she's just questioning why it isn't better.
If this turns out to be true, and assuming that the opposition from the future comes just in response to Matsumoto and Vivy messing with the timeline, then what made Ophelia commit suicide in the original unaltered timeline? |
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Richard Eisenbeis
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 88 |
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That's a fantastic question. The way I see it, it is either A) a completely ignored plothole or B) a hint that this isn't the second timeline but the third. (I.e., that there was a timeline before Matsumoto's where the robot apocalypse didn't happen but someone/something time-traveled to make it happen--causing the creation of Matsumoto's timeline.) After all, while Ophelia was the first to commit suicide, it was said that many more AI started to do the same afterwards--which, to me, implies the meddling of some sort of outside force. (Unless we're supposed to assume that all the AI that killed themselves were taken over by their partner AIs?) |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
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Two things:
1- Ophelia allowed Antonio's control, it would have worked even without future's software; 2- Antonio got tired of not reaching an answers as to way his performances didn't had a bigger impact with the audience, never reaching their goal and also regret what it did to Ophelia realizing that he also never wanted it to reach it's goal because it felt jealous of Ophelia not singing only to it. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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God-damn, if this show manages to stick the landing, it'll be amazing, but I'm honestly getting more and more concerned about that. We're about two-thirds of the way through the series and the century and questions keep accumulating but there hasn't been a hint of an answer so far. Doesn't mean it isn't possible...but damn.
I will absolutely say that was some amazing action. Also seeing Ophelia deliver growling threats was pretty hilarious despite the dark context. But 40 years was a huge time gap, especially after the cliffhanger we got just before it. I wish we knew more about the Diva persona or, indeed, how the hell Matsumoto covered up what happened on the island...or any of the consequences of the incident at Metal Float. All indication is that that should have been the biggest Singularity Point so far: we had AIs straight up killing humans (which Matsumoto seemed terrified of), the destruction of the world's biggest AI factory which Matsumoto stated should have outright killed the majority of AI and the suicide of one of the scientists who helped create it (and that's assuming Matsumoto got him and Vivy off the island, because otherwise he committed suicide on the island). But it's just not addressed. All the previous missions built upon one another in some way, showing us at least a hint of the consequences of the previous mission. We knew mission 1 led to the passing of an upgraded naming bill, then we find that changing the events behind the space-hotel disaster moved Metal Float's development 20 years forward and disrupted the first AI and human marriage. It was all interconnected. Then, the Metal Float mission goes to pieces in a variety of ways and we just...skip 40 years. We don't even know if that 40-year-gap is because there simply weren't any singularity points for the middle third of the century, or because the destruction of metal float successfully eliminated singularity points for the next 40 years. Same with Vivy's personality change. She's been Diva about twice as long as she's been Vivy, but that period is mostly skipped over. After being repaired and rebooted did she return to her original personality and gradually develop this new chipper persona with time? Or was she like this the moment that she rebooted? This is not helped by the revelations about Yugo. A lot of my previous mentioned concerns are still very much up in the air...they could all be smoothly resolved in the next four episodes, I just don't know. But I can say, without a doubt, that Yugo's motivations are hot nonsense. He joins a group of violently militant anti-AI terrorists...because of how much he loved his AI piano teacher who died because he violated his programming to save human lives? So...so...he wants to kill AI...so that AI are protected...from having the choice to sacrifice themselves? And honestly, it brings up really confusing issues about how humans and AI's interact with one another and what their relationship actually is, which is a big problem considering that's kind of the central issue of the show that leads to the final war between humans and AI. Leaving aside the fact that the AI piano teacher clearly seemed autonomous, despite predating Diva...they held a funeral for him? Not even just for him, giving funerals to AI's is a common enough practice that there are specific traditions for it. This might make some sense after the AI naming law and the arrival of the Sisters...but this took place before then. This AI wasn't even legally permitted to have a name, but AI funerals are still a traditional thing? Not just some kind of personal funeral like you might have for a pet, but a full-blown affair with mourners and a coffin. So, before the first sentient AI is developed, we have AIs and humans forming close emotional relationships and a tradition of AI funerals...but AI can't have names. Then only fifteen years after AI are legally given names, they're allowed to own and operate businesses like the space hotel and are allowed to be given an inheritance from a human? But then an AI can basically be brainwashed and enslaved to serve as the core sentience in Metal Float. But forty years later, AI rights are still constrained enough that the apparent suicide of an AI singer causes a revolution in AI rights? |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
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I've mostly accepted that the story isn't interested in answering a lot of the "how" questions, and I'm totally fine with that. It's trying to create a bunch of beautiful moments, and I think it is perfectly willing to let the robustness of the setting slide for that sake.
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Stelman257
Posts: 272 |
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Just wanted to jump in to say I'm really loving your reviews! They're very informative and I love how much you clearly understand and discuss what the show is doing! Vivy has been one of my top 3 in a season full of some extremely good shows, and I hope it not only sticks the landing, but gets a great English dub some day and receives the attention it deserves!
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 512 Location: Poland |
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I wonder if seeds of robo-apocalypse were sown 40 years back by someone with more limited time-travel technology, while our professor used more powerful version of this technology maybe developed independently from the enemy, to send Matsumoto back 100 years, or maybe the enemy thought 100 years is unnecessary overkill compared to 40 and/or huge time span is too unreliable due to increased butterfly effect. |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
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Does no compute. This anime drains any wish to spend any additional minute after the episode ends thinking more about it. It's just not worthy and interesting enough. But yesterday I glanced at some random thing that made me remember the anime and Yugo. What a disappointment of a character, all these episodes of build up for that? I guess it was useful for one thing though... to makes us realize that in this world there's no "Three Laws of Robotics". And also, no "Shinto", maybe? Because holding "funerals" to inanimate objects is not a strange thing in Japan. (and this is another big problem is this anime, not only we are being required to ignore possible aspects of it's world, it also requires us to ignore aspects of our own world). |
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yuzumei
Posts: 53 |
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I am getting bored with all the melodrama surrounding the androids "main mission" and failing it and blah blah blah.
I am disappointed with Yugo's backstory. His reason to hate androids is nonsense. I really liked the space hotel episodes but the robot-island and the suicide-singer-bot episodes not much. I really don't understand something about the show. If Yugo managed to put his memories (ghost) inside a robot, why is Ophelia dead? why is Antonio dead? Can someone just put their memory banks in some other body or computer or cube? Why is the scientist's robo-wife in robot-island dead? Why the scientist did not copy his wife memories before she became the island's brain? The tech was there because he wanted at the end to transfer the island's brain data into the robot copy he made of his wife. |
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darkchibi07
Posts: 5470 |
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Wasn't it established during the space hotel arc that wouldn't work at all? It's the reason why Elizabeth got disposed of in the first place because the cloning transfer experiment failed. |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
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#10
Oh, look! It's the "snake speech" again! A bit of off-topic here, because I'm been complaining about how much this anime is unsatisfactory. There's a chinese animation airing right now called "Link Click". I started watching yesterday and every single one of it's five episodes gave me all that I wanted to see in the whole of Vivy now. There's also time travel involved in that story but the rules and mechanics are much simpler, the characters just need to try to NOT change anything. This makes the stakes higher because every minute in the past is a huge temptation to do things differently. But even excluding the time travel each individual story stands on it's own and managed to hit me hard. Highly recommended for anyone watching Vivy. Back to Vivy, here's my opinion of what happened. Hearing Vivy's composition made the IA realize that they can "create". I'm probably wrong, since last episode revealed the existence of a third party interfering with the events. It'll be a shame if everything is resolved in the end with the revelation of the "true villain". |
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Calsolum
Posts: 898 |
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I completely forgot about that ending. Though that's more my memory being terrible than anything else. The most memorable moment of MGS was the final fight in MGS4 with spoiler[ocelot and all his 'personas']
If it's available in English subtitles I'll give it a try, I don't think I've ever watched a Chinese animation that wasn't derived from Nezha.
I think you're right but I don't think that's the whole story. Vivy's song seems to have been the start of the current timeline's roboapocaplyse but in the first timeline (timeline 0) I’m guessing Vivy was just another AI that was turned/converted BY the song’s revelation. In the first episode Vivy had some dirt on her(from just waking up the bombed museum?) and she was announcing her ‘mission’ before exiting. Now it could just be me looking too hard but her tone of voice felt ‘lifeless’ unlike how she sounded in later volumes. That said it does beg the question of how much is different and how much is the same? As soon as I saw the kid getting older I noticed the resemblance to Matsumoto(the human) so I’m wondering what the original Vivy was like in the first timeline? Presumably she lacked the same sense of ‘humanity’ that she’s nurtured from the singularity project yet I suppose she was still able to leave a lasting impression on Matsumoto, enough for him to entrust with the mission of preventing the roboapocaplyse. I’m guessing the ‘culprit’ for lack of a better term is going to be the latest model in Diva’s production line. Perhaps an AI that was ‘too’ advanced in that it gained independence (the ability to create that inciting song) before it learned the value of life (something Vivy spent 100 developing by growing and living alongside humans and AI). |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
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I'm surprised that people didn't understood immediately that the kid was Matsumoto. I thought it would become obvious and they would figure this when the Cube said that they meet for the first time that day. Anyway, it's hard to figure out things because we see nothing, absolutely nothing. This whole time we are like Vivy in that museum, isolated and blind to everything that it's happening in this world. We only know what Cube Matsumoto tells us from time to time. In this end this wasn't a story to bother thinking about, there isn't much to say about anything and just want us to sit and wait until "it all comes together in the end, trust me".
I took the liberty of creating a topic in case someone else watches and wants to comment, and it's the right time to start because the first episode suggested an overreaching story that looks like will start to be developed next episode. Series Discussion > Link Click (ONA) |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
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I really dislike this aspect of Macross beyond SDF. |
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blahmoomoo
Posts: 463 |
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I could be wrong, but I thought the AI were vocalizing Vivy's composition. |
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