Forum - View topicTokyopop recent quality issues
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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Well, like I implied in a previous post, there`s still hope, even if Tokyopop never picks it back up and/or another company doesn`t pick up the ball. There is very little text to translate (character/plot summaries would be the most wordy segments) and if you can find it from Sasuga Books (www.sasugabooks.com), a dictionary and knowledge of passive/active voice is all you really need to understand. 
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FeralKat
Posts: 402 |
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Ironic, because I'd rather pay MORE and have paper that doesn't rub ink off on your fingers. |
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KrisEllieOphi
 Posts: 111 Location: Texas |
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I wonder who this competitor is. Viz's manga has been mostly 8.99 for a good while, which is a real blessing (especially since I read mostly Viz titles). I know there are other publishers, but Viz would be their biggest competition, I think. I'll be really disappointed if they raise their prices more than a dollar. So they changed their paper...but still raised their prices. The dollar increase happened a year or two ago I think. The paper change is much more recent. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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I think it's fun how Tokyopop is trying to say it's not just them, but I kinda think it is. The last time I can remember buying anything from them was...at least a year ago, but probably two and even then it was half off from a closing Waldenbooks. Hmm, I did buy a few of their older titles at a used bookstore, but since they were used, it wasn't really contributing to them (they were hard to find and quite old anyway, Planetes and Cyborg 009).
So, thin paper. This thin paper thing sounds awful, but Dark Horse has been using thin paper for ages with Astro Boy, and Astro Boy's paper isn't see through either (not unless held directly to a light source, but it's not horrid see through either). For a while, I actually thought that there were less pages in the Astro Boy series and that Dark Horse was asking too much for it, but when I discovered that it only had slightly less pages than my Maison Ikkoku volumes (about 20 pages or so on average) but appear to be about 2/3 the size, it was obvious that they were using thinner paper. But their thin paper is clearly not broken and it's not subject to tear under normal use either (trust me, I borrowed one from my library where it's in the children's section, and it wasn't brand new, it had been there a while), so there is good thin paper out there. And (according to other posts), the ink doesn't rub off either. As for pricing, Tokyopop doesn't seem to be alone on this one. I am totally writing this while looking at TRSI's site so I can get prices right. I've been noticing companies have been charging more on average lately myself. I think ADV had this problem (the manga publishing anyway, and we all know where that went), the only manga series I have from them is Cromartie High School which were $10.99 each and only about 170 pages. But Cro high also has ungodly amounts of text in it. And then Del Rey came out and they seem to be having some price issues too with most things costing $10.95. But it should be noted that these are being printed on good paper, even with average page count (190-210), but at least they're being consistent. In the case of Parasyte though, they're charging $12.95 for each volume which has a page count between 288-304, it's about 133% larger than your average manga, and that extra $2 is entirely worth it. That I will call a bargain. But then I must question their pricing schemes for Suzuka and Yagyu Ninja Scrolls. Vertical is pretty new as well, for a while, I didn't mind their prices, until Black Jack came out at $17 a pop for 300 some pages. I don't care that the pages are much bigger and nicer with a nice quality paper and cover....actually I do, but c'mon, $17 seems a bit much. But then they released things like Ode to Kirihito, Apollo's Song, and MW, which are respectively $25 (828 pages), $20 (544 pages), and $25 (hardcover, 600 pages). And then they also release Buddha with between 328 and 414 pages each at $15 each for the softcovers. So they've released a lot of good stuff at good prices and Black Jack is a good series too, but I'm waiting for deals at TRSI or Otakon personally. Of course, Viz will probably always remain a freak of nature with low priced manga, maybe if they didn't have access to roughly 80% of all the super popular series that sell like hotcakes, their prices would raise too. Then again, both Pluto and 20th Century Boys are both of average page count and cost $12.99 each, but they also have nicer paper and obviously larger books. But I suspect that Pluto is using thinner paper too, the books strike me as much thinner from the side than other books of similar size. I could be wrong though, I've only looked at them in the Borders, and I only buy from them if I have a coupon worth at least 30% off. So while Tokyopop can tell us all day that other companies are raising prices, these other companies are not raising prices on everything and they're not skimping on quality overall either. I'm a little in the dark here honestly, but I go home in two weeks, I'll check out Borders to see the new thing about the thin paper. Personally, I don't mind the idea of using thinner paper, so long as the paper is good and no totally see through, because quite frankly, my shelves can't hold anything more AT ALL. I'm shocked Tokyopop is still holding out, this might be the final nail. Hopefully someone else will pick up the series that we actually want.
Personally, I stopped trusting them around the onset of the OEL obsession. Sure, I'll admit that there were a few that I actually liked, namely My Cat Loki, but the library proved that most of them were pretty average. I think part of it was also that when Del Rey came into play with their delicious contract to snatch Kodansha titles first dibs, Tokyopop got hit pretty bad by this, Viz was pretty well set, since they were all over Shonen Jump, but Tokyopop didn't really have any sort of power house to fall back on and they didn't have much choice but to pick up some scraps here and there and hope that people wanted to buy OEL titles. In what is kinda hilarious, during spring break I visited my old high school and the librarian (whom I'm friends with) said that they had an OEL called "Bad Kitty" or something as a book of the month once (she didn't use the term OEL, I don't think she knows). I immediately recommend Solanin for the library. How long did I just spend typing this? I have an 8am tomorrow, bad classicalzawa! |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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The only company that has raised it's relative prices (changing price mid series) is Seven Seas I believe. The fact that TP calls them a competitor is pretty funny. And that's no offense to Seven Seas either.
As far as Darkhorse, yeah there are plenty of 300 page manga that I have that are smaller than 200 page standard manga. But the pages are gloss coated and more sturdy and bright white. And even though they are smaller in volume they weigh more than the larger book. The paper we are talking about is more akin to news print, or something you would find in Shōnen Jump, a throw away magazine. |
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LKK
 Posts: 426 Location: Virginia, USA |
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No, the competitor that the TP rep was likely referring to is Del Rey which recently announced a price increase. If I remember right, Del Rey books will now be selling at a $12.95 US price point. |
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Faceman
 Posts: 300 Location: Boston |
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I still don't mind that if the quality will be the same. I think with the way the economy is, people understand the increase in prices of non-essentials. I just can't really justify in my mind paying more money for an inferior product. I'd rather pay $2-3 more for the same if they have to raise the prices. |
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KrisEllieOphi
Posts: 111 Location: Texas |
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On Dark Horse:
Trigun Maximum had pretty inconsistent page counts volume to volume, but every single volume was $9.95, even the slightly bloated ones (I'm not counting the first two larger Trigun manga, which were separate). On thin paper: CMX has been using thin paper similar to TP's for a while now (at 9.99 a volume). I've never had any problems with ink coming off. The pages are slightly see through; really only when there are darker colors (like full black) on the other side. Nothing that interferes with my reading. The only TP I have with the new paper is Return to Labyrinth, and I can't tell if it's see through because all the pages are so tone heavy. I think the most recent Phantom Dream is a bit thinner, but it was a tone heavy volume too so it's hard to tell. Anyway, I'm only reading 3 TP books right now, and they're all Natsuki Takaya. Furuba has one volume left coming out next month, and both Phantom Dream and Those With Wings are short series. I haven't seen anything else I'm interested in starting up from them. My two newest titles will be from Yen Press (at 10.99) and Viz . On OEL: By shifting their focus from Japanese manga to OEL manga, TP may be alienating their core readers, but surely they've picked up some? Though it is hard to get people to try something new like that, who don't already read any sort of comic or graphic novel. The only ones I've read are DramaCon (which is OK), and Return to Labyrinth (which is not so OK). I remember My Cat Loki (I read the first volume); I actually thought it was awful, but I was really turned off by the concept. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Ah, I see. I must have missed that news story. The pre-orders I have from Del Rey, namely xxxHOLiC and Tsubasa have not increased in price mid-series and xxxHOLiC 14 comes out at the end of November. So you would think that price changes would have been reflected in those far off dates. However, doing an advanced search of Del Rey through Right Stuf (check Publisher = Del Rey), it does appear that some titles have switched price mid-series. Alive, Dragon Eye, Hell Girl, Minima!, Nodame Cantabile, Pastel, Pumpkin Scissors, and Shiki Tsukai have all had price changes from $10.95 to $11.99. Gacha Gacha: The Next Revolution has had a price change from $12.95 to $13.99, but that is a large format book and is expected to be more expensive. All other oddities in prices can either be accounted for in quality in binding or large page counts and not viewed as an increase. But yes it does appear that they have had a price change, but if I were to guess I would say the new price point is $11.99 not $12.95. It also seems that the new price is not affecting all series, most likely only the ones which have lower sales. Going back to the advanced search and including a price constriction for the $12.95 price (price = $9.71) and it looks like no new standard manga is coming out with a $12.95 price point, except for Parasyte 8 (price = $9.74) which doesn't count because it's only a 4¢ increase and already had a higher price due to high page counts before these recent rounds of price hikes. I agree with Faceman that reasonable price increases aren't so bad so as long as the quality remains consistent. An increase in price and a decrease in quality is kind of outrageous. Doing a similar analysis of TokyoPop standard manga that have either had a dollar price change or are new enough to be affected are: Blood Sucker: Legend of Zipangu, Bloody Kiss, Chibi Vampire, Element Line, Fate/Stay Night, Fruits Basket, Future Diary, Gakuen Alice, Game x Rush, KimiKiss, Kyo Kara Maoh!, LIFE, Love Attack, Maid Sama!, Me and My Brothers, Momo Tama, Momogumi Plus Senki, NG Life, Pet Shop of Horrors: Tokyo, Phantom Dream, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Sgt. Frog, Shinobi Life, Silver Diamond, Takeru: Opera Susanoh Sword of the Devil, This Ugly Yet Beautiful World, Togainu no Chi, Trinity Blood, and Zone-00. So I guess fans of any of these series can expect to have a low quality book to look forward to. |
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Didn't CMX switch to better paper a while back? My old Moon Child volumes are printed on thin, slight see-through paper that's already discoloured. Emma, Flat Earth/Exchange and some other more recent CMX series I own don't have those problems. |
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lys
 Posts: 1009 Location: mitten-state |
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This caught my eye—I'd been really anxious about VB Rose the past month or so as well. But Tokyopop just announced recently (via Twitter and elsewhere) that VBR will be back—volume 6 is scheduled for release in October!! That's a ways off, but at least the series isn't gone for good! The next volume of I Hate You More Than Anyone, by the same author, will be out that month as well from CMX. It does seem like Tokyopop has been making improvements in customer response/acknowledgement lately. Or maybe it's just me? As for the paper quality issue, it's a bit frustrating to me too, and it looks funny seeing those wimpy-looking thin volumes on my shelf next to the thicker ones... (and I miss the fancy gold foil from early VBR volumes!) but really I'm just thankful to be able to continue reading my favourite series. Typos and printing errors bother me a lot more than paper quality. Also, with the price increase, online stores like amazon can offer a discount (amazon charges full price for books under $10; it's actually cheaper to buy TPop books from them now than it was before! (I still prefer to buy from my locally owned independent bookstore when I can, but still, for those of you looking to save money...)) so it's not the end of the world. Not to mention, skinnier volumes means I can fit more of them per shelf! Eheheh... (I run out of space quite frequently; probably a good half of my collection is stored in boxes till I can get another bookcase!) |
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kyokun703
 Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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Yay!! You have no idea how happy you just made me. And yes, tissue paper manga is better than no manga... it's just irritating. I wouldn't mind a lighter paper if it just wasn't so see-through. That's what really bothers me. |
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Faceman
Posts: 300 Location: Boston |
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I think it comes down to a fine balance of what we need (lets just assume in this case we need manga) vs what we're willing to accept. For some of us, we need to have the next volume of a series, and don't care what quality the "hardware" (so to speak) will be. For others, we don't want to waste our money on an inferior product, especially if we could get something of better quality from a competitor or other means. Example: The high gas prices last year - plenty of people said "Ok, it costs $4 a gallon, but I have to buy it" and did. Others said "Ok, it's $4 a gallon. I can walk to work or take a bike or a bus" and did. I feel it being kind of the same situation with the increase in costs and the decrease in quality. |
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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Yeah, I agree. For some of my must-have series, then I just have to choke on this. However, for series that I was collecting, but not as gung-ho about, yes, I would probably drop those if I didn't agree with price hike/quality drop. And it will certainly make me reconsider starting any new series with them. For me, that comment was for my gung-ho series. Sorry I didn't make it clearer. |
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stuckinfresno
 Posts: 223 Location: Fresno, CA |
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Yeah, the Tokyopop printing problem actually began when SDK 33 was released. Since then I've noticed that all TP releases have this poorer quality of paper. (Trinity Blood 10, Burst Angel 3, Pet Shop of Horrors: Toyko 4, ect.)
This also includes Future Diary for whomever asked. It is interesting that a TP rep replied that the paper change was to cut costs. Because on another thread (Amazon.com under manga discussions in a thread called New Releases from Tokyopop) a TP Associate Publisher said they changed paper printers in order to improve their release schedule and well as negotiating price (but not cut costs). From Pavia - I wanted to address a few of the comments on this thread. The paper we had been using prior to the stock you're discussing was only available from one mill, and suffice it to say, this didn't offer us a lot of flexibility with negotiating scheduling, pricing, etc., so we've been exploring other options. The new paper is different, of course, as you noted - our current printer let us know that other graphic novel publishers are inquiring about and using this paper, too. Now we are in the process of gathering feedback from consumers and other partners, and I appreciate all the candid comments as we assess its future. (BTW, our cover stock has not changed - it's still 10pt C1S - but perhaps the different paper gives it that impression.) Apropos postponing series, like all publishers, we have adjusted the release frequency of some series as we continue to analyze sales numbers and, in the case of slower-selling titles, build demand. Many publishers - not just manga and graphic novel publishers - follow a similar strategy, as we all try to make sense of the current economic climate. Alas, the retail landscape around us keeps shifting and as a result, as a small independent publisher, we need to be as responsive to these new realities as we can in order to survive - and to thrive. Also for all interested on that Amazon.com thread the Associate Publisher is active on posting replies to questions asked in thread containing the word Tokyopop. |
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