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Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood -[adult swim] (w/index).

amarielah wrote:

Charred Knight wrote: One of the things I hated about the first anime was that god awful Shou Tucker subplot. It mad little sense considering that the reason why he transmuted is wife and daughter was the fact that he was a horrible alchemist, and frankly I wanted him off my screen. Yes, because it makes no sense that the government, who spoiler[had been experimenting with creating human hybrid chimearas], would want somebody that had successfully transmuted two of them. He wasn't a horrible alchemist--he had simply set the bar too high and dug his own grave. Not because he couldn't do any better, but because it's rather difficult to find victims for your ~experiments~ that people won't miss. Heck, even Tucker had trouble with that part later on. That being said, you're obviously entitled to dislike the subplot. I personally thought it worked well with the theme of the series. Re: The episode itself. I thought that this was the strongest episode out of the first fifteen, and the dub has just reaffirmed that. I do have to agree with JesuOtaku, though. A little subtlety could have gone a long way. They were definitely going the "Most Definitely Not A Villain" route with Tucker this time around.

Considering that Tucker's chimera form had an upside down head I can't imagine how he would have been able to create spoiler[Greed's Chimeras] even with the first anime timeline. That would be a massive amount of improvement in a short amount of time especially when you consider that spoiler[it's implied that they where made Chimeras soon after the Ishval war began]

Tucker's entire point is that unlike the rest of the Alchemist shown in the series, his not an expert, his not this high level master of Alchemy, his the normal guy who tries his best but can't live up to the greatness that the rest of the cast finds so easy.

Considering that Tucker's chimera form had an upside down head I can't imagine how he would have been able to create spoiler[Greed's Chimeras]

Why would they kill someone who was still apparently useful, and be forced to use inferior work. Simply put Tucker's experiments where spoiler[far behind the government's experiments. In Brotherhood, and the manga Tucker is kept on to hide the governments work with Chimeras, they didn't need Tucker, they didn't want Tucker, but when someone makes a talking Chimera even if you know its far inferior to your own you have to take it.]

Tucker was never a kind soul, the fact of the matter is that he tried to play God, and created an abomination. He wasn't broken, he was completely nuts, he turned his Wife into a Chimera because he wanted state certification, and then he turned his daughter into one to keep it.

How the hell can you be sympathetic for someone like that? The fact that they dropped a bridge on Dr. Marcoh just to keep the subplot going was even worse.

But more than that, Tucker's entire point was to reinforce yet another of FMA's major themes: Human folly and hubris. Think about the temptation; When you have THAT much power and ability, be it science or magic, and you're given free reign to do anything, wouldn't you go the distance? Wouldn't you try, just to see if you could? There's morals and ethics sure, and first series Tucker clearly struggled and wracked his brain against what it would come down to. But he had already had his first taste; it worked and granted him success. What he did would be truly horrible, and it shattered him completely, but the apple was sweet, and the pressing deadline was the final push.

The first series got ALL OF THAT across in about two or three masterful episodes, a move some would call slow-paced but I'd say was just subtle, detailed and masterful storytelling, and when it finally hit, it booted you in the stomach and kept it there. Not to mention how it all tied back around to the Elric's folly and cemented one of the show's greatest strengths; it's ability to morph even the kindest souls into sick maniacs before you even know what hit you, and vice versa.

A shame in the manga and Brotherhood, he's just an unsubtle cackling psychopath you see coming from a mile away who did the deed just to stay rich HYUCKHYUCK. Sorry, the anime was just much better written for awhile there, and of course, Brotherhood's still rushed, sloppy and hackneyed about it.

Stop confusing this with the first anime, Shou Tucker's role was to show the horrors of Alchemy when used in the wrong hands, his role done his death provides relief.

As for things that need to remain a secret do I really need to point out the scene in the first series where Basque Grand pratically yells that Amestris used Philosopher's stones in the Ishval massacre in front of a bunch of people?

Charred Knight wrote:

Stop confusing this with the first anime, Shou Tucker's role was to show the horrors of Alchemy when used in the wrong hands, his role done his death provides relief.

Right, and such horrors, exposed to Ed and Al, serve to disillusion them, which is a device used to build their characters. It doesn't matter which series it's in, it's about development.

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As for things that need to remain a secret do I really need to point out the scene in the first series where Basque Grand pratically yells that Amestris used Philosopher's stones in the Ishval massacre in front of a bunch of people?

There seems to have been a severe lack of tact and subtlety going around the BONES studio at the time Brotherhood was produced. That much is obvious.

And the development was still their, another episode would frankly just drag the story. I keep on hearing how great it was that Nina and Tucker got two episodes, but I remember episode 6 and the thing was boring as hell, especially the second half where they drag out the Alchemy exam.

I mean what more could they do with Nina? Show her playing more with Ed, and Al? It's not like all that extra screen time with Shou Tucker did anything for him, he crossed the point of no return when he transmutated Nina into a Chimera, after that there was nothing they could have done that would make him sympathetic.

Did you quote the wrong part of my post, how does me pointing out a similar scene in the first series have anything to do with BONES studio having a "lack of subtlety" at the time "Brotherhood was produced". Also what is with the past tense, the series is still being produced.

Are you saying that you think BONES hired me, to praise Brotherhood?

If BONES was so desperate that they would hire someone, they sure as hell wouldn't hire an American, especially one whose favorite manga is Fullmetal Alchemist.

Charred Knight wrote:

And the development was still their, another episode would frankly just drag the story. I keep on hearing how great it was that Nina and Tucker got two episodes, but I remember episode 6 and the thing was boring as hell, especially the second half where they drag out the Alchemy exam. I mean what more could they do with Nina? Show her playing more with Ed, and Al? It's not like all that extra screen time with Shou Tucker did anything for him, he crossed the point of no return when he transmutated Nina into a Chimera, after that there was nothing they could have done that would make him sympathetic.

If you think that a second episode with important develepmentary characters that encompassed only half of the events therein "drags" a story, you must be incredibly impatient. And actually, for only two episodes, there was a lot going on: Tucker's chimera work, the birth of Hughes' daughter, and the Alchemy exam.

What's this thing about sympathy? You don't get what I'm saying, do you? First of all, they didn't figure out he'd transmuted Nina until the end of the 'second' episode, then he was gone. Secondly, it's the same problem I'd mentioned before--they're throwing characters in and ripping them out again before they've had time to develop significance.

It's about pacing and natural progression. At least with the Alchemy Exam thrown in, it gave a much longer time frame during which Ed and Al became more intimately involved with Tucker and Nina. This made the knowledge of Tucker's transmutations that much more disgusting. Now I'm just repeating myself. I mean, this is basic stuff here--simple writing devices used to build and strengthen the protagonists' characters. And I don't know how I can get you to understand that.

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Did you quote the wrong part of my post, how does me pointing out a similar scene in the first series have anything to do with BONES studio having a "lack of subtlety" at the time "Brotherhood was produced". Also what is with the past tense, the series is still being produced. Are you saying that you think BONES hired me, to praise Brotherhood? If BONES was so desperate that they would hire someone, they sure as hell wouldn't hire an American, especially one whose favorite manga is Fullmetal Alchemist.

...Are you high? Who said any... what? Did you actually read what I wrote, or did you just make something up as you were going along?

I guess I'll have to clear up your confusion: in true conversational form, I was agreeing with you on the lack of secrecy about the military and various alchemy-related secrets. That relates to the writers' lack of subtlety and tact. I don't know how you cold have missed that.

Of course, I'm not going to see eye-to-eye on FMA with Charred Knight, but I do agree with some of what he's saying, since spoiler[Marcoh] does add a bit more to the mix than Tucker.

And not to mention either way, there were tons of armed soldiers and they should have shot him immediately instead of standing around while he escaped. Sometimes I think the Amestrian military is the most incompetent fighting force in fiction.