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REVIEW: Toradora! Volume 2 Premium Edition


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Leebo



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:22 am Reply with quote
I like Toradora a lot, and it's probably not one of my "absolute favorite romantic comedies" but I wouldn't flip my lid over seeing someone say that it's one of theirs. Seriously.

And who cares if it turns out Toradora was a "fad" and not a "classic". Does that mean it's wrong for someone to love it more than other romantic comedies?
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zebbox



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:57 am Reply with quote
I love this anime series but I will never NEVER buy this DVD edition due dubless Evil or Very Mad
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 636
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:29 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Otaking09, I have to disagree. How could this show have started off in a completely new way? Every story that has ever been told has basically been told, so the only way to create something new is in how you tell it. Toradora succeeded in doing just that.

This is why I don't understand the "It starts off as every other romcom" argument. Also, when you first meet people, you will drop them into molds. There may be the smart book worm girl you know, the video game nerd boy, the football stars, etc... This is no different in anime. You have to introduce the audience first to the bear bones of a character and then flesh them out, just like people do in real life.


Uh, Eden of the East is a perfect example of "breaking the mold" so to speak. Thankfully though, Toradora never steeped into using those stereotypes. If it had, then the transition would've been more "WTF?"
Also, people in real life are NEVER just assumed by those titles. Well, they are, but not so downrightly so. That's just anime's take on personifying.
Is it possible to be amazing from the get go? Very much so. Is it common? No.

Quote:
I'm going to have to disagree with you here, I really liked Minori from the start. I found her to be an extremely complex character and easily the best adjusted of the three girls. Unlike the other two she wasn't looking to Ryuji as someone to take care of her or protect her, she simply liked him for his kindness, loyalty and dependability, but more than anything I think she saw some of herself in him, always watching out for and taking care of others and putting herself second. She proved early on that she was no fool and much of that was just her way of protecting herself. She really let this shine when she was locked in the storehouse and at the beach house. Her speech about aliens showed that she was every bit as capable of talking in metaphors as Ami was. By the time Taiga's father shows up and Minori shows her angry, unforgiving side we should be well aware that she's every bit as complex as any other character in the series, perhaps even more so. And yes, I actually did know girls just like her when I was in high school, the class clown type that also did sports and still got good grades, always hanging out with the popular kids though you couldn't really nail down why. They really are out there.


It's because she was complex in the end that makes it so... disappointing. She makes it clear she geniunely likes him because of him, but... how do they utilize this? By spoiler[thowing an off-hand confession at the end, and making it clear that her devotion to Taiga comes first]
I never could like her, because her "depth" is wasted on sticking to her "i'm a good person" guns. The "pushes" I was referring to was that when she spoiler[basically called out everyone's refusal to admit their true feelings in the 23-24 ep] that's what all her depth amounted to.
I was surprised though, what with her spoiler[coming to head a head with Ami during the ski trip]. THAT was... truly unexpected.
And, f.y.e., I'm aware that there's goofy, sporty, kids with a popular aura, but hardly are they 100% self-sacrificing people who would gladly give up their affections to someone who isn't true to themselves.
I never said that Toradora was bad, just... I think it's good points are given WAY to much credit.
Of course, I was disappointed with how they used Ami too, but at least her nature was more open for the duration.

Quote:
And who cares if it turns out Toradora was a "fad" and not a "classic". Does that mean it's wrong for someone to love it more than other romantic comedies?


Absolutely not. I, personally, love Kaze no Stigma(announce those winners please ANN?). Even though there's quite a lot of those kinds out there.
As for it being a "fad" over a "classic". I think it's because it's best points don't make up for it's generic ones. It's one of the better romcoms... but... a romcom is still a romcom. Even though Key was quite right in calling the late stage a misnomer.
It proves itself, but doesn't really break away from it's label. Truth be told, I think my current favorite romcom would be School Rumble. Although, Kimi ni Todoke is, technically, one too...[/spoiler]
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:09 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
How can people think that way?

Well, let's find out...

dtm42 wrote:
[RahXephon] is not an Evangelion (#142) clone. It is hard to find a better crafted show in Anime, and the love story is epic.

Now, I could easily berate you on your choice of words, but I've a feeling you'll come out with some asinine excuse arguing semantics, despite the fact both comments are similar.

It's not difficult for people to use such statements when coming across a series they enjoy.

Similar to mine when I say your remark regarding RahXephon doesn't stand up against Aria even on the best of days.

They're called opinions, not facts. Relax, dtm42, or you're going to blow a fuse one of these days.

On topic now:
I wasn't surprised Key would find this series enjoyable. I've read many positive reviews from fans so I'll definitely be sure to add this to my Wish List, which seems to be growing rather quickly of late.

That is, unless Key wants to lend me his copy since he lives down the road from me. Wink

Oddly, I just happened to notice NIS America is calling these "volumes" rather than "parts". This threw me off for a second given I thought singles were yesteryear.

I suppose now I'll just wait for the "Complete Volume Collection", hopefully by year's end.
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3132
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:19 pm Reply with quote
zebbox wrote:
I love this anime series but I will never NEVER buy this DVD edition due dubless Evil or Very Mad


You seemed to get through it fine the first time Japanese dubbed eh? Don't blame it on the lack of an English dub.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7812
Location: IL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:30 pm Reply with quote
~~EpiC~~ wrote:
Megiddo I don't understand what you mean by character inconsistencies either. I thought pretty much every action of the characters were explained. They did things pretty realistically and I even know some real life people who have acted in very similar fashions. Midori's personality in the first half was explained by what was revealed in the second half. I don't see these inconsistencies at all.

I'd be happy to entertain your thoughts and ideas, but simply saying that "it was explained" without providing information about how it was explained just isn't very fruitful. Again, if you wish to provide further debate and examples as to how what I was said incorrect, then go ahead and PM and provide examples.

I'll freely admit when I'm wrong, and I just may be in this case, but it'll take a bit more than "it was explained" for me to see how I'm wrong.
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:41 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Key wrote:
In the process it rounds out one of the best romantic comedies anime has ever generated.


Really? I mean, really?

I'm an outspoken critic of Toradora! and the hype it engenders, I have made that so very clear in the past. But these kind of statements still shock me. I mean, really, one of the best Anime RomCom shows ever? How can people think that way?


Still haven't figured out how people have the temerity to hold a different opinion than yours, eh? Sorry, can't help you with that. It's a principle that most people beyond the age of 12 just instinctively understand.
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Bento-Box



Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 1049
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:00 pm Reply with quote
I purchased this box set and I quite enjoyed it and the first set as well.

I love what NIS has done with the box set! The art book is too cute and the hard case is especially nice. Too many times, I've dented those cheaper, paper-thin box sets. I really appreciate them giving me something sturdy, practical in size, and filled with yummies. While I don't care for the height of the box, I'll gladly take this over some of the other box sets I've seen over the past few years.

The subtitles bothered me from time to time - especially the "Chi Chi" translation. Personally, Chi Chi from the musical West Side Story came to mind - hot headed with a big mouth. But I highly doubt they would make a Leonard Bernstein Broadway Musical reference in an anime series. There were a few other discrepancies that bugged me, but not enough for me to remember them.

The lack of a dub did not bother me in the slightest. I understand there are a lot of people who like dubs, but I think NIS made a good business decision here. They're new to the anime industry and it looks like they're testing the water. I imagine putting a dub track on the DVDs costs a lot of money and they may not have wanted to take the dive just to have complaints about who they cast as whom. I think NIS did a great job in providing us with this series when no other licensing company and distributor wanted to step up to the plate. I'm looking forward to purchasing their products again and I hope they will continue bringing anime I love to the states.

As for the best RomCom anime? I dunno. Maybe - maybe not. I probably haven't seen nearly enough Romantic Comedies to push that conversation in either direction. Although, it's definitely one of my favorite series of all time (#4 on my list - yes, I actually maintain a list).

That being said, I wouldn't criticize someone over their opinion of the series being the best RomCom out there. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And, while it's one thing to debate - it's a completely different thing to bludgeon someone just because of a differing opinion. Being surprised over hype is one thing. Making logical arguments and having mature conversations is a completely different thing altogether.

I think the best thing about the series is the characterization. Each character is fun to watch in their own ways. Each character brings something different to the table. And, I would agree that while they do respond realistically, there are definitely over the top moments. For example, girls beating the crap out of each other over a guy is a fairly common occurrence but the extent of the fighting or things said during the fight might be a little more artificial simply because it's an anime series and it's not meant to portray people as accurately as possible.

I can also see why some people would be disappointed with the ending. For me, the ending was solid. I thought they did a good job wrapping things up and closing their additional story lines while seeing the relationships through to the end. Leaving things off any sooner could have left people wanting more closure on the post-high school relationships or wondering why certain characters would just act the way they did spoiler[specifically referring to when Taiga and Ryuji decide to flee] because it doesn't suit their characters. The whole spoiler mentioned above is just a can of worms not worth opening here though...

I have to say that I was a little disappointed that there were not any DVD extras or even menus. I mean, I can see why they didn't need the menu if there weren't going to be extras or even subtitles, but... it was just weird.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:13 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Now, I could easily berate you on your choice of words, but I've a feeling you'll come out with some asinine excuse arguing semantics, despite the fact both comments are similar.


No asinine excuses, I don't deal in those. I'll simply respond that RahXephon completely blows Toradora! out of the water, and if you think otherwise then [cool story bro].

That is all I'm going to say about that.
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Takeyo



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 736
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Bento-Box wrote:
I have to say that I was a little disappointed that there were not any DVD extras or even menus. I mean, I can see why they didn't need the menu if there weren't going to be extras or even subtitles, but... it was just weird.

Hit your Menu button (on either set) to access the main menu and extras. The second disc of each set included a couple of chibi shorts, and the textless OPs and EDs are included, as well. Why NISA decided to have the episodes start automatically is beyond me.

Also, while Theron has reported that the subtitles aren't enabled by default, others (myself included) have found that this isn't the case. It's presumably a DVD player and/or setting specific issue.

EDIT: asimpson2006, my assumption is that it's dependent on whether a player has some sort of "Default Subtitles" option in its setting. On my players where I've set the option (including my PC), I've had no problems. On my XBOX360, where I don't have the option AFAIK, I have to enable the subs manually.


Last edited by Takeyo on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Takeyo wrote:

Also, while Theron has reported that the subtitles aren't enabled by default, others (myself included) have found that this isn't the case. It's presumably a DVD player and/or setting specific issue.


I've tried on three separate DVD players (My parents, my own, and my laptop) and mine show up by default, so maybe it could be a setting with those three players.

EDIT:
Takeyo, maybe that has something to do with it. I will have to try that tonight.


Last edited by asimpson2006 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1972
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:39 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Now, I could easily berate you on your choice of words, but I've a feeling you'll come out with some asinine excuse arguing semantics, despite the fact both comments are similar.


No asinine excuses, I don't deal in those. I'll simply respond that RahXephon completely blows Toradora! out of the water, and if you think otherwise then my opinion of you is at an all-time low.

That is all I'm going to say about that.


If your opinion of individuals is based on what entertainment they like, then MY opinion of YOU is at an all-time low. Razz

Actually, even though I need to finish both shows, I will say Toradora's first 6 episodes (all I've watched so far) do a damn better job of establishing the characters and grabbing my interest than Rahxephon's first 6 episodes (seen up to 8). It doesn't help that Rahxephon took the most interesting subplots (spoiler[the main character's mom being amongst the enemy and the girl in his school being.......something. What's that? We're pushing that aside for other stuff? Gee, thanks! Confused ]) and shoved them to the side for the most part in favor of less interesting stories. Instead, let's focus on a bunch of other stuff, probably because we're introducing too many characters at once without letting the audience get emotionally invested in the ones we already have! Say what you will about Toradora, but at least it knew how to handle its beginning properly and set up the main characters right before delving into too much stuff than it could handle.

(obligatory "this is just my opinion of a show, anyone who gets butthurt about it is LOL-material" remark)
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khryoleoz



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 157
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:48 pm Reply with quote
This series was a chore for me to finish, and really it's because I found most of the characters unlikable. Taiga was (along with that dumb name that's a play on Tiger) annoying, Minori was gutless, and for Ryuji's strong points I despised how he just let himself be bullied by someone who deserved no ounce of sympathy.

I stuck with it since Ami was somewhat fascinating, but most of all I love Sumire! This series didn't really shine until Yusaku's experiences were revealed and how Sumire was at its core, and then Sumire took Taiga to school on love and and dreams and the sacrifice of discipline. I would have loved this series had its story been focused on Sumire and Yusaka!

Also, ditto on dtm42's points, especially RE: RahXephon! But I've long ago learned to just accept statements made by people as an expression of a subjective experience rather than any kind of affirmation of something that is absolute. Toradora can be the best series for reasons that any person can give, and Haruhi can be the one of the most over-rated series ever, and I'll have reasons to hate Toradora despite those said reasons, and still love Haruhi to death while also agreeing that it is over-rated.


Last edited by khryoleoz on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Bento-Box



Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 1049
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:56 pm Reply with quote
Takeyo wrote:
Bento-Box wrote:
I have to say that I was a little disappointed that there were not any DVD extras or even menus. I mean, I can see why they didn't need the menu if there weren't going to be extras or even subtitles, but... it was just weird.

Hit your Menu button (on either set) to access the main menu and extras. The second disc of each set included a couple of chibi shorts, and the textless OPs and EDs are included, as well. Why NISA decided to have the episodes start automatically is beyond me.

Also, while Theron has reported that the subtitles aren't enabled by default, others (myself included) have found that this isn't the case. It's presumably a DVD player and/or setting specific issue.

EDIT: asimpson2006, my assumption is that it's dependent on whether a player has some sort of "Default Subtitles" option in its setting. On my players where I've set the option (including my PC), I've had no problems. On my XBOX360, where I don't have the option AFAIK, I have to enable the subs manually.


Oh wow! I can't wait to get home and try that out! Thanks! =)

I don't know what my DVD player has, but it has never done that with any other DVD. I'm currently watching CCS which also has no dub track and it always defaults to the menu. I have some kind of a BluRay player. I think it's Sony.

After all the episodes on a disc played out, it would go to the Chibi stuff. On the Christmas episode, I noticed that there was a textless ending that played after the text-ed ending. I think this may have been at the end of a disc as well.
Weird...

Also - dtm42 - Toradora, though of a different genre entirely, is better, in my opinion than RahXephon.
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khryoleoz



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 157
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Now I'm confused. Are ideas expressed in "opinions" not subject to criticism since they don't bear facts? Opinions carry with them value judgements and can we not examine value judgements and determine whether conclusions arising from them are valid or invalid? As dtm42 pointed out, it's one thing to say one liked the series, another to make a comparative evaluation and form the conclusion that it is the best over other entries, unless that expression means nothing more than that of approval similar to how "gentelman" stopped becoming a statement of fact and began to mean that some dude was cool.

So let's take the opinion that Toradora is better than RahXephon, or vice-versa. Certainly we can investigate what informs that value judgement right?
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