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This Week in Anime - The Rise and Evolution of Old Classic Dubs

I understand why Toei is hesitant to dub Pretty Cure again. They attempted a largely faithful, uncut dub with Futari wa, and it bombed. So then they tried the Glitter Force approach, thinking a more heavily reworked effort would be more successful with kids. But it also underperformed. So they're probably out of ideas on how to make an English dub of it work.

Dubs cost money. It's the same reason Sentai isn't dubbing Tokyo Mew Mew New.

Battle City was hit the hardest because of the rewritten character development in order to lessen the Shonen-esque feel of the whole arc.

The fact Sevens was dubbed is still weird to me since Rush Duel doesn't exist in America or the TCG. There's literally nothing for it to be promoting outside the general YGO brand. A sub-only release would have made sense, but them putting effort into dubbing it to sell nothing is such an odd thing to me.

Why can't they just make another uncut dub? The most recent seasons have gotten subbed releases, so I don't see why Toei can't crack out another uncut dub---especially one that keeps the Japanese names and cultural references. The series is currently being aimed at older audiences, so surely Toei shouldn't think another edited dub will work.

I don't know how involved they were with Glitter Force. Seems like Saban made most of the choices, though Toei must have bene aware.

FINALLY someone without the usual suspect excuses! This is a VERY good question! I think the dub didn't flop because we've actually seen what happens when an anime actually flops on YTV (4Kids One Piece lol) they stop airing it halfway (Canada didn't even air episode 45!) and then never go on. Pretty Cure may not have taken Canada by storm but they did finish all the episodes of the first series. I think what happened is that YTV for some random reason fell out of love with Anime ENTIRELY and just dropped all of it from the channel. And while the dub is well made enough and VERY faithful and since its uncut it could easily go on a Blu Ray with the subs, the dub is actually indeed censored, all the love Letters Nagisa got in the Japanese version are turned into Fanmail, A World War 2 flashback is turned into being about an earthquake and so on,

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:

Dubs cost money. It's the same reason Sentai isn't dubbing Tokyo Mew Mew New.

I think that because of the failure of the 4kids dub, Sentai doesn’t want to dub both the original Tokyo Mew Mew and the reboot.

mgree0032 wrote:

Battle City was hit the hardest because of the rewritten character development in order to lessen the Shonen-esque feel of the whole arc.

Yugioh's a shonen too. Not only is it a Jump creation, but it even aired alongside other shonens in Japan, not toyetic shows.

light turner wrote:

The fact Sevens was dubbed is still weird to me since Rush Duel doesn't exist in America or the TCG. There's literally nothing for it to be promoting outside the general YGO brand. A sub-only release would have made sense, but them putting effort into dubbing it to sell nothing is such an odd thing to me.

I find that weird too. But I don't think they would have dubbed it if they didn't have plans to release Rush cards in the TCG. I think they're just trying to figure out how to push it. And apparently their current plan is hoping shoehorning Rush Duels into Duel Links will get players outside of Asia interested. (Which I'm dubious of, but we'll see)

Nipasu wrote:

Why can't they just make another uncut dub? The most recent seasons have gotten subbed releases, so I don't see why Toei can't crack out another uncut dub---especially one that keeps the Japanese names and cultural references. The series is currently being aimed at older audiences, so surely Toei shouldn't think another edited dub will work.

Dubs are expensive to make: https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-why-does-dubbing-cost-so-much/

It's a lot cheaper to just subtitle a show than it is to dub it. And I think that's why Toei has started simulcasting them. Dubbing Pretty Cure is a financial risk that has failed to pay off more than once, so it's easier to play it safe and just sub it instead.

I do wish Toei would attempt an uncut dub though. Not only because I'd like one as a fan, but I also think it could be successful? Based on the continuing success of Pretty Cure simulcasts, the audience for it seems larger than the one for Glitter Force. And I don't think Toei realizes that a faithful uncut dub would be just as enjoyable for kids as it would older fans.

Nipasu wrote:

I don't know how involved they were with Glitter Force. Seems like Saban made most of the choices, though Toei must have bene aware.

From what I've read of how edited dubs work, Saban likely made most of the choices themselves while Toei just approved of them. But I do think the reason Toei tapped Saban to localize Pretty Cure is they were hoping it would be a repeat of their success with Digimon.

YagamiBlackstone255 wrote:

FINALLY someone without the usual suspect excuses! This is a VERY good question! I think the dub didn't flop because we've actually seen what happens when an anime actually flops on YTV (4Kids One Piece lol) they stop airing it halfway (Canada didn't even air episode 45!) and then never go on. Pretty Cure may not have taken Canada by storm but they did finish all the episodes of the first series. I think what happened is that YTV for some random reason fell out of love with Anime ENTIRELY and just dropped all of it from the channel. And while the dub is well made enough and VERY faithful and since its uncut it could easily go on a Blu Ray with the subs, the dub is actually indeed censored, all the love Letters Nagisa got in the Japanese version are turned into Fanmail, A World War 2 flashback is turned into being about an earthquake and so on,

Thank you! I try not to make excuses, lol. Yeah, I'd say the dub "underperformed" more than it was a flop. It did well enough to air in full, just not well enough to also dub Max Heart or the movies. I'm also surprised Toei only aired the dub in Canada and the UK? It's too bad they never tried to air it in places like America or Australia. And I'm aware. I should've clarified I meant uncut in the "lack of visual edits" sense, rather than the "no censorship" sense.

mgree0032 wrote:

Cardcaptor Takato wrote: Dubs cost money. It's the same reason Sentai isn't dubbing Tokyo Mew Mew New. I think that because of the failure of the 4kids dub, Sentai doesn’t want to dub both the original Tokyo Mew Mew and the reboot.

Sentai doesn't even have the license to the original Tokyo Mew Mew, so I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Lord Geo wrote:

Sentai doesn't even have the license to the original Tokyo Mew Mew, so I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Well, since the original Tokyo Mew Mew anime was lost forever because of the 4kids dub being hacked up so badly.

oilers2007 wrote:

Sailor Moon and Pokemon being worldwide phenomena are solely because of the quality of the IPs themselves, not whatever changes or styles the American dub used.

Let’s imagine if those IPs weren’t censored for TV back then, would it still be a hit success if the show-runners left them as they were? The changes that we Americans made still made the IPs the success that they were back then.

First, "lost forever"? How can a show that was literally released on SD-BD in Japan back in 2020 be "lost"? Seriously, the idea of "lost media" has truly become worthless, since all it means to people now is "I don't have instant access to it, ergo it's lost!". The original Tokyo Mew Mew anime isn't lost, it's just not readily available in English because no company has decided that it's worth license rescuing, whether that be the original Japanese version or 4Kids' edited dub.
.

Let’s imagine if those IPs weren’t censored for TV back then, would it still be a hit success if the show-runners left them as they were? The changes that we Americans made still made the IPs the success that they were back then.

Dubs cost money and hard work to make and Toei is a business who is looking to maximize their profits and they're not going to spend their money and efforts of dubbing a 50 episode show that nobody is going to watch. It's the same reason Sentai isn't dubbing Tokyo Mew Mew New. I also think most American fans being adults who already watch the show subbed is a reason they're not going to dub it. There's no reason to dub it if the fanbase is already watching subbed and there's no expectation that a dub will expand the audience. And I love dubbed anime and think it's important for accessibility reasons but I don't know why a lot of Precure fans see getting a dub as the end game or the only way the show can be a success versus other important issues like getting all the past Precure shows we still don't even have streaming subbed yet or having merchandise be more accessible to American fans or expanding the Crunchyroll simulcasts beyond the US.

FINALLY someone without the usual suspect excuses! This is a VERY good question! I think the dub didn't flop because we've actually seen what happens when an anime actually flops on YTV (4Kids One Piece lol) they stop airing it halfway (Canada didn't even air episode 45!) and then never go on. Pretty Cure may not have taken Canada by storm but they did finish all the episodes of the first series. I think what happened is that YTV for some random reason fell out of love with Anime ENTIRELY and just dropped all of it from the channel.

It's a lot cheaper to just subtitle a show than it is to dub it. And I think that's why Toei has started simulcasting them. Dubbing Pretty Cure is a financial risk that has failed to pay off more than once, so it's easier to play it safe and just sub it instead.

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:

Dubs cost money and hard work to make and Toei is a business who is looking to maximize their profits and they're not going to spend their money and efforts of dubbing a 50 episode show that nobody is going to watch. It's the same reason Sentai isn't dubbing Tokyo Mew Mew New. I also think most American fans being adults who already watch the show subbed is a reason they're not going to dub it. There's no reason to dub it if the fanbase is already watching subbed and there's no expectation that a dub will expand the audience. And I love dubbed anime and think it's important for accessibility reasons but I don't know why a lot of Precure fans see getting a dub as the end game or the only way the show can be a success versus other important issues like getting all the past Precure shows we still don't even have streaming subbed yet or having merchandise be more accessible to American fans or expanding the Crunchyroll simulcasts beyond the US.

How many other anime titles are largely successful in the West with only subs? All the other major franchises licensed have dubs content, so it's odd to see Pretty Cure not getting anything dubbed. Not even a movie.

And if popularity plays a factor, then I don't get why Toei bothered to re-dub Saint Seiya. It's a great thing, but Seya even less of a fandom in English speaking countries than in Europe and Latin America. Plus the dub itself was just dumped on Netflix before it was removed and then re-located to Crunchyroll. Regardless, Saint Seiya was a failure when it was first brought to the US, yet Toei keeps trying to promote the franchise via a CGI reboot and a theatrical release of that new live action movie.

Most fans are okay with subs, but many do want at least another attempt at a dub. It can help attract more fans, but also help get younger kids who can't read subs into the anime too. As for rising popularity, the best bet is if Toei USA actually tries being more proactive in promoting the series; alerting people of new episodes and uploading episode previews on Youtube are fine, but it'd be col if Pretty Cure could get a shout-out at a convention. Maybe just a poster so people know the series exists..

I don't know why TMMN wasn't dubbed by Sentai, but I've heard they're not really dubbing their shoujo content nowadays.

YagamiBlackstone255 wrote:

FINALLY someone without the usual suspect excuses! This is a VERY good question! I think the dub didn't flop because we've actually seen what happens when an anime actually flops on YTV (4Kids One Piece lol) they stop airing it halfway (Canada didn't even air episode 45!) and then never go on. Pretty Cure may not have taken Canada by storm but they did finish all the episodes of the first series. I think what happened is that YTV for some random reason fell out of love with Anime ENTIRELY and just dropped all of it from the channel.

If I remember correctly, Pretty Cure had two main timeslots: 2:30 pm weekdays, 7 am Saturdays. (If somebody can correct me, please do).

I don't think it's because YTV "fell out of love with anime" by 2009. They were airing Pokémon, and I think there was till other content. It's just with Pretty Cure, it wasn't able to catch on. Maybe because of the timeslots or the dubbers couldn't get the rights to Max Heart.

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It's a lot cheaper to just subtitle a show than it is to dub it. And I think that's why Toei has started simulcasting them. Dubbing Pretty Cure is a financial risk that has failed to pay off more than once, so it's easier to play it safe and just sub it instead.

Perhaps the reasoning behind Pretty Cure's past failures is because neither company broadcasters that licensed the series did barely anything to promote the series.

How much did Toei promote the dubs? They tweeted about Glitter Force, but did they do anything else?

Did Saban do anything? GF had no merch.

Makes me question if people would say such things to One Piece if it was never picked up by Funimation. Or if Funi never licensed Dragonball Z (or any of the future content). Would they also insist Toei shouldn't throw their money at these shounen franchises that failed to crack the US?

How many other anime titles are largely successful in the West with only subs? All the other major franchises licensed have dubs content, so it's odd to see Pretty Cure not getting anything dubbed. Not even a movie.

And if popularity plays a factor, then I don't get why Toei bothered to re-dub Saint Seiya. It's a great thing, but Seya even less of a fandom in English speaking countries than in Europe and Latin America. Plus the dub itself was just dumped on Netflix before it was removed and then re-located to Crunchyroll. Regardless, Saint Seiya was a failure when it was first brought to the US, yet Toei keeps trying to promote the franchise via a CGI reboot and a theatrical release of that new live action movie.

Most fans are okay with subs, but many do want at least another attempt at a dub. It can help attract more fans, but also help get younger kids who can't read subs into the anime too.

Nipasu wrote:

How many other anime titles are largely successful in the West with only subs? All the other major franchises licensed have dubs content, so it's odd to see Pretty Cure not getting anything dubbed. Not even a movie.

It's less of a thing nowadays due to everything being simulcast but back in the 90s and early 2000s it would sometimes take a year or two even for a show or movie to get licensed and dubbed and many older shows became niche favorites through the fansub tape trading circuit first. Dubs do play an important role in visiblity and accessiblity, but even nowadays not everything gets dubbed by Crunchyroll and Sentai but still become fan favorites and there's plenty of forgettable shows that get dubbed like any of the dozens of isekai power fantasy shows Crunchyroll dubs every season. But my overall point is there's lots of other things Precure fans can do to get people to watch that don't require a dub and fans getting their hopes up for something not likely to happen anytime soon and it's kind of an American-centric point of view for Precure fans to make it out the franchise can only be successful if it's in the English language.

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And if popularity plays a factor, then I don't get why Toei bothered to re-dub Saint Seiya. It's a great thing, but Seya even less of a fandom in English speaking countries than in Europe and Latin America. Plus the dub itself was just dumped on Netflix before it was removed and then re-located to Crunchyroll. Regardless, Saint Seiya was a failure when it was first brought to the US, yet Toei keeps trying to promote the franchise via a CGI reboot and a theatrical release of that new live action movie.

They redubbed Saint Seiya because it got a reboot and they were trying to use the redub to push for the reboot. The same thing happened with Sailor Moon where the 90s anime didn't get rescued licenesed and redubbed till Sailor Moon Crystal was made. Likewise Saint Seiya moving to Crunchyroll was also to help push the live action movie which was made more with international markets in mind and the US was just an afterthought for it.

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Most fans are okay with subs, but many do want at least another attempt at a dub. It can help attract more fans, but also help get younger kids who can't read subs into the anime too.

I would argue Toei putting up all the backlog Precure shows on streaming and also making Precure available outside the US would also help to increase the show's popularity.

Also I dont think so. Crunchyroll has not helped. At all. Because you need an account to even see Pretty Cure. Kids who cant pay for an account will never be able to watch it. We are exactly where we started, only the subs are not fanmade anymore.