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Exclusive Interview: Viz Media's Charlene Ingram and Josh Lopez on Sailor Moon


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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1454
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:53 pm Reply with quote
Sevenfeet wrote:

As for the "sexist" part, well again, this is the show that "evil" Umino up skirts Miss Haruna early in the series, and what's her first reaction? Not to pound Umino into sawdust...she cries about no one will want to marry her. Really? That's the reaction??? Beating the crap out of a him would have been funnier.


To be fair, I don't really think that a teacher should beat the crap out of her student. I actually don't think that would make it amusing either. :c

There is a trope regarding Japanese female teachers, I just don't know how to explain it because I don't really know what it's called...but I've seen it in anime a lot.
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Sevenfeet



Joined: 18 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:56 pm Reply with quote
tygerchickchibi wrote:
Sevenfeet wrote:
h
As for the "sexist" part, well again, this is the show that "evil" Umino up skirts Miss Haruna early in the series, and what's her first reaction? Not to pound Umino into sawdust...she cries about no one will want to marry her. Really? That's the reaction??? Beating the crap out of a him would have been funnier.


To be fair, I don't really think that a teacher should beat the crap out of her student. I actually don't think that would make it amusing either. :c


"Beating there crap out of him" wasn't the real point. Please read the previous sentences.
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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1454
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:17 pm Reply with quote
Sevenfeet wrote:

"Beating there crap out of him" wasn't the real point. Please read the previous sentences.


I already read it, derp.

Sevenfeet wrote:

As for the "sexist" part


You started out with a new topic. the last paragraph about how skimpy clothing doesn't help them fight don't seem to correlate to your next paragraph.

What you mentioned, however stuck out to me like a sore thumb because you were using that example to make a point, did you not? *shrug* I just thought it was a poor one.
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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Sevenfeet wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:

We're not critiquing you for critiquing it. We're critiquing you for attacking skirts and make-up with seemingly no justification.


Really? You're trying to ask a serious question that should be obvious to everyone here?

Let's just pretend you're not either trolling me or defending this slavishly. Let's address the "silly" aspect of this. Hyper short skirts and bare legs in all kids of weather are hardly the attire most woman would choose to fight monsters. Just sayin'. The front bow probably gets in the way of anything practical you'd want to do with your arms and hands. High heel shoes on Mars? Yeah, that's an broken ankle waiting to happen (and curiously, it DID happen). And I doubt those tiaras would stay on a minute in combat. But let's be "realistic" for a moment. Most super heroine costumes in comic books in the US are pretty silly too. Wonder Woman? DC had to retconn a story that her costume was some kind of magical armor. Whatever. The Black Cat from Spider-man comics? I'm sure that cleavage wouldn't stay tethered while swinging through the city. And of course, the queen of ridiculous costumes has to go to Power Girl, where the creators weren't even trying to justify their character's choices...at least not one that didn't result in peals of laughter.

As for the "sexist" part, well again, this is the show that "evil" Umino up skirts Miss Haruna early in the series, and what's her first reaction? Not to pound Umino into sawdust...she cries about no one will want to marry her. Really? That's the reaction??? Beating the crap out of a him would have been funnier. Short revealing skirts are the rule for women in comics who wear them (Wonder Woman, again was an early template). But in this case they are on 14 year old girls. It's hard not to think that this isn't a lite version of fan service. Back in the 1980s, the X-Men was the most popular comic book in the US and the youngest character was Kitty Pride. All the other X-Men who began as teenagers in the 60s were adults by now and Kitty Pride was introduced at age 13 but not assigned to one of the other younger mutant superhero teams. Given how the artists drew her considering the age of her character, Kitty Pride was often referred to as "Kitty Porn" by readers. Despite my comments here, I don't think that Sailor Moon animators went nearly as far as Marvel artists on their respective characters.

As for the "Make Up!" line, the transformation sequence does contain fingernail polish, lipstick, hair, etc. At least they are consistent.

I have a little girl who's 8 years old and is in the target demo for this show now. I'm hardly a prude. I don't mind the gay themes...she sees that in real life and needs to view that realistically since she has a friend with gay parents. Violence? No more than her Harry Potter movies. Sexism not compatible with my wife's view on women's issues (or mine)? Not sure about that.


Why exactly do you think I'm trolling you? Confused And the show does poke fun at the fact that trying to fight in those clothes would be really cold, a couple of times. But Tokyo is pretty warm, most of the time, so it's not much of an issue. And their front-bows aren't bigger than their torsos, so they don't get in the way. Laughing I do think the heels are impractical, but then again, the characters don't engage in a whole lot of hand-to-hand combat, so I imagine it's not much of an issue.

Meh. I'm not big on that joke, myself. But at the same time, Haruna's pretty man-crazy, so it's not really out of charter for her.

And yes; the characters are 14-16. 13 is the age of consent in Japan, so long as it's with another 13-17 year-old, so it's less taboo to give characters of that age range more sexual clothing; I concede that it's an uncomfortable cultural difference. Though it's arguable exactly how sexual a leotard is (Ballerinas wear them all the time, for example).
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 1:46 am Reply with quote
Sevenfeet already brought up a bunch of American superheroine costumes which are completely impractical and horribly sexist. It's not like the American comic and cartoon industries are above sexualizing teenaged girls (mostly in media aimed at boys and adult men which... Kinda makes it worse? I'm not sure.) But in impractical costume choices, can anybody top Naruto's day glo orange jogging outfit? Kid's supposed to be a ninja! And it's not like it's there for sex appeal. It's an ugly, it's impractical, it's uncool, and its never explained. Just a weird costume choice.

Speaking of choices, a lot of people are blaming the anime writers/animators/directors for choosing, well anything in the story, but I'm pretty sure that all those details were developed by Naoko Takeuchi. If you take issue with it, ask her.
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fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1820
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:01 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Speaking of choices, a lot of people are blaming the anime writers/animators/directors for choosing, well anything in the story, but I'm pretty sure that all those details were developed by Naoko Takeuchi. If you take issue with it, ask her.


IIRC, the sailor suit uniforms were actually suggested by Takeuchi's editor at Kodansha.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:33 am Reply with quote
What a sad day to see one of the most iconic series for girls, created by one of the most successful women in the industry, being demeaned as sexist trash. Sometimes I wonder just what kind of show people who make these claims want. Females who have forgone their own feminity? There's something unsavory and backwards about that mindset.

-Stuart Smith
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:02 am Reply with quote
Speaking as a woman, I really, really wish I had watched Sailor Moon as a kid. I would have absolutely loved it! I grew up craving shows with serialized, complicated storylines and ended up watching a lot of American superhero cartoons like Spider-Man, live action Japanese imports like Power Rangers, and Gargoyles--pretty good choices when you're starved for content (and Gargoyles in particular had *great* writing). But they were all so male dominated. The women were side characters, love interests, or simply outnumbered by the males. American cartoons today don't seem that much better.

Sailor Moon is revolutionary because it's All About Girls! Girls are the stars, the primary focus, the superheroes! So they're feminine, they like pretty clothes and jewelry and make up--not anymore so than Barbie, or Bratz dolls or the girls of Monster High, or, hey, many little girls in real life! They have male love interests-- well, most male superheroes have love interests, too (who occasionally save their butts). Their costumes are impractical? Can you think of a superhero who has a *practical* costume? Superman's cape isn't aerodynamic, it's there to look good.

I haven't seen the whole show yet, but I can already tell that I would have eaten this up as a kid. If my nieces were interested, I'd show it to them in an instant. And now they, and a whole new generation of girls has the chance to discover the show and fall in love with something that's still unfortunately so rare--girls in a show about girls for girls. Girls who are shown calling the shots. Girls who are masters of their own destiny! Really, what more could you ask for?
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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Speaking as a woman, I really, really wish I had watched Sailor Moon as a kid. I would have absolutely loved it! I grew up craving shows with serialized, complicated storylines and ended up watching a lot of American superhero cartoons like Spider-Man, live action Japanese imports like Power Rangers, and Gargoyles--pretty good choices when you're starved for content (and Gargoyles in particular had *great* writing). But they were all so male dominated. The women were side characters, love interests, or simply outnumbered by the males. American cartoons today don't seem that much better.

Sailor Moon is revolutionary because it's All About Girls! Girls are the stars, the primary focus, the superheroes! So they're feminine, they like pretty clothes and jewelry and make up--not anymore so than Barbie, or Bratz dolls or the girls of Monster High, or, hey, many little girls in real life! They have male love interests-- well, most male superheroes have love interests, too (who occasionally save their butts). Their costumes are impractical? Can you think of a superhero who has a *practical* costume? Superman's cape isn't aerodynamic, it's there to look good.

I haven't seen the whole show yet, but I can already tell that I would have eaten this up as a kid. If my nieces were interested, I'd show it to them in an instant. And now they, and a whole new generation of girls has the chance to discover the show and fall in love with something that's still unfortunately so rare--girls in a show about girls for girls. Girls who are shown calling the shots. Girls who are masters of their own destiny! Really, what more could you ask for?


As a gay dude, I tended towards identifying with female characters over male, a lot of the time. Laughing So I understand the feeling. I watched a lot of magical girl shows. I read and watched a lot of fairy tales. And a combination of Disney, Nick, and Cartoon Network gave me a steady supply. The Wild Thornberrys, Kim Possible, The Powerpuff Girls, As Told By Ginger, etc. I never particularly felt as though the supply was lacking.
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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
What a sad day to see one of the most iconic series for girls, created by one of the most successful women in the industry, being demeaned as sexist trash. Sometimes I wonder just what kind of show people who make these claims want. Females who have forgone their own feminity? There's something unsavory and backwards about that mindset.

-Stuart Smith


I agree. This whole thread made me sad.
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Don't let it bother you, it is just one person's opinion, a poorly supported one at that. While I agree that being old and iconic does not make a program immune to criticism, this thread was not the place to do it.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 1:11 pm Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:


As a gay dude, I tended towards identifying with female characters over male, a lot of the time. Laughing So I understand the feeling. I watched a lot of magical girl shows. I read and watched a lot of fairy tales. And a combination of Disney, Nick, and Cartoon Network gave me a steady supply. The Wild Thornberrys, Kim Possible, The Powerpuff Girls, As Told By Ginger, etc. I never particularly felt as though the supply was lacking.

You were lucky enough to have cable! Wink

I can't think of an awful lot of currently ongoing American cartoons with female protagonists--My Little Pony and Legend of Korra, obviously. Gravity Falls focuses more on Dipper than Mabel, but I'd still say she's a protagonist.

I think the focus on live action shows for tween girls like ICarly and Hannah Montana, along with the ridiculous notion that boys won't watch shows with female leads (didn't Sailor Moon disprove that two decades ago???) has shifted what the children's networks are willing to produce for girls.
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arromdee



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:06 pm Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
What a sad day to see one of the most iconic series for girls, created by one of the most successful women in the industry, being demeaned as sexist trash. Sometimes I wonder just what kind of show people who make these claims want. Females who have forgone their own feminity? There's something unsavory and backwards about that mindset.


The standards for calling things sexist are so loose that Sailor Moon is, by those standards, in fact sexist. It's just that people like Sailor Moon so they don't apply the same standards.

The solution is to have more reasonable standards. However, nobody's going to use that solution because it will impair their ability to slap the "sexist" label on things which they don't like.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:48 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
I can't think of an awful lot of currently ongoing American cartoons with female protagonists--My Little Pony and Legend of Korra, obviously. Gravity Falls focuses more on Dipper than Mabel, but I'd still say she's a protagonist.

I think the focus on live action shows for tween girls like ICarly and Hannah Montana, along with the ridiculous notion that boys won't watch shows with female leads (didn't Sailor Moon disprove that two decades ago???) has shifted what the children's networks are willing to produce for girls.


I won't comment on My Little Pony, since that's a minefield of a discussion and it's not my type of show anyway, but I'll assume it's a decent portrayal of girls across the board. But as far as Korra goes, I think it's a detrimental to the category. It seems bizarrely anti-feminine in everything it does, though this can be easily explained in that the show is aimed at young boys, and young boys would be uninterested in girly things. Korra as a character was created to appeal to boys, not girls, so I suppose that's why the way it is.

Nickelodeon and Disney's lvie-action shows are amazing though. Seeing so many shows aimed at and starring girls is pretty impressive. I suppose that's where all the talent lies: their live-action department. Perhaps female audiences have abandoned animation in America in favor of live-action and the networks are just catering to them.

-Stuart Smith
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
I doubt they would not know that master material should not be stored in conditions that would expose it to the outside environment. Besides I will hazard a guess that SM was done on video tape, not film too.

Has any anime, ever, been recorded straight from cel onto video? It's not exactly designed for frame-by-frame capture.
People have original cels to trade because the studios ]got rid of them. Other materials aren't always treated much better and, even with the best of intentions, may not have held up well (remember how much time, money and effort they had to spend restoring the negatives for even something huge like Star Wars?)
I'm not talking about the cels. I'm talking about the masters. She was worried that Toei would treat their masters like they did with those museum exhibits is all. Video rostums have existed since the early 80's, and Star Wars was done on film because it was suppose to be first shown in cinemas which still used 35mm film projectors back then, not broadcast TV. I doubt Sailor Moon had the same budget. Josh probably got a box of video tapes, not cans of film reels.
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