Forum - View topicNEWS: Art Print Raises Funds for Iowan Accused of Obscene Manga
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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So, I need to go to jail becuase TRSI sent me a free copy of Negima vol. 1? It does have underage girls bathing and losing their underpants, so obviously I'm going to develop a need to see little girls naked. The idea that 'but you could start doing bad things' is a very dangerous road to go down. Should McDonald's have to close shop becuase you could get fat it you eat there? Should football be illegal becuase you might get hurt playing? It's one thing to question the guy's tastes, but being a pervert isn't illegal- acting on it is. This is a case of people panicking becuase they saw something they aren't comfortable with. And that, quite simply, isn't fair. I highly doubt there's 'more to this story', I don't think the CBDLF would be involved if he had charges for actual child porn. While I won't be buying this print specifically, I intend to browse the CBDLF shop heavily to get my brother a birthday present- he loves comics, this is just the kind of cause he'd support. |
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zargas
 Posts: 50 Location: Nebula M78 |
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There are many cases of extreme otaku developing a "2D-complex", where they no longer have any interest in pursuing sexual relations with real people, instead preferring fantasy manga imagery. Usually this is considered a bad thing, but in the case of pedophiles this could be a good thing.
Pedophilia cannot be cured, so shouldn't pedophiles be encouraged to redirect their tendencies into developing such a 2D-complex, thus rendering them basically harmless to real children and society? |
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Haruka69
Posts: 1 |
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the fact that the manga was meant for adults only and that an adult is the owner than their should be no problem. i dont agree with the charges on this one
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Ashen Phoenix
 Posts: 2918 |
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I agree with you there, Lib. And while I can understand some peoples' objections to this case and the attention it's getting, all I can do is voice my views on this and respect theirs: I don't support what he does or doesn't do, but I'll fight tooth and nail for his right to do it. |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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Basically, they tried to get him on CP charges and the judge ruled that portion of the law as unconstitutional, and the only part left the prosecutors could use was transportation of obscene materials across state lines. So this case now really has nothing to do with CP, and everything to do with trying to stop anyone from buying porn from other states or countries. A successful prosecution will stifle comic artists from drawing sexually explicit materials in their works since their sales could be only local if they could sell at all, so it's very much an issue of free speech. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Otaku? I've heard of red-blooded American men who would never waste their time watching "cartoons from Japan" with this particular issue (too much time with a magazine=disappointment in the sack, dudes) They aren't saying shouta or loli, but just yaoi & that one partner looks young. With that in mind, can't one argue all these movies about sex-starved high school kids looking to lose their virginity is child porn since they are portraying minors? Need to ban Romeo & Juliet for that matter. Wow. They could bust a lot of us for that one. Yeah, I know that one has artistic value, but you could tell the same tale if the pair were legal age. (resurrect Thomas Bowdler?) |
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The_Libertarian_Otaku
 Posts: 189 |
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And what's so wrong with a 2D complex? Need I quote the Genshiken GIF? @ Haruka69: Amen, amen, amen to that. The guy buying these manga books is an adult, and they're meant for adults only. Threatening him with jail time further proves that there are people who just want to dictate how others live their lives. If you can't stand the heat, don't blow up the bookstore just because you don't like my choice of reading material. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Well yes, anything involving any perceived sexual situation of persons portrayed under 18--real or not--could be officially construed as "child porn". Let me quote myself in a previous thread: "Of course, this being the puritanical states of amerika, reason may not be enough when you have cases like these:" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/08/teen_charged_for_cell_phone_pics/
Now it's funny you bring up Romeo and Juliet. If you read the proceedings by the decidedly conservative Judges who ruled for the Protect Act, they specifically mentioned Romeo and Juliet as being a troublesome example because as it was proposed, the Act would technically apply to such works as well. Not that they wanted to ban Romeo and Juliet, but they were worried that having the Act apply to Romeo and Juliet would undermine the proposal. So they simply decided to limit the act to visual works instead of written. 
But yes, if R&J were to be animated--heck, if just about any young adult novel you pick up at the bookstore were to be turned into a film, animated or live, and if they stayed true to the novel--then yes, people could get screwed over. |
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nottimkai
 Posts: 77 |
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you're thinking of the other guy. Chris Handley only had the manga. They confiscated 7 computers from his home, and none of them had child porn on them. It's unclear what the manga actually was, by the way. It was reported to be lolita porn manga at first, but since then I've only seen people making references to yaoi doujinshi.
This logic is flawed in many ways. It takes the stance that humans are machines with no self direction. You will find no legitimate research that comes to the conclusion that reading such materials causes pedophilia. I read such manga, and I have no desire for children. Or even to search out real child porn. In this case, saying that Lolicon Manga causes Pedophilia is a logical fallacy. I really hate that argument, especially since I can't easily attempt to refute it without an internet connection when it is brought up in real world conversations.
In this we both agree. |
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revilenigma
 Posts: 45 |
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what can they possibly charge him with? did they just bust down the doors and take him without a explanation?
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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The Post Office has the right to inspect items they handle. Whether this package was targeted as being from a foreign country (because we all know there are tons of terrorist organizations in Japan OR we know Japan is all perverts), or just a blind pick, they found these manga. Apparently some charges have been dropped (so there may have been loli at one time as the issue), & the remaining issue they are going to court on is apparently one or more yaoi volumes. None of the manga has ever been disclosed, though I'm sure they will be named in the trial. Conspiracy theories abound that this is an effort to make a test case for virtual porn. In the middle of all this we've seen Unicef or whoever complain about Japan's unpoliced manga & anime materials as prime examples of virtual child porn so the connection does seem possible, though not proven. Bottom line, it's a bad deal & really, really stupid. Romeo & Juliet aside, there are other works that have used child abuse to make a point of how wrong it is so banning depictions of everything these people are worried about is insane. I've read lots of science fiction, but I really don't see myself boarding a spaceship to another universe, nor do I desire to live in a post-apocalyptic world just because I've seen more than a few movies in that setting. SEEING & DOING are two different things. I thought the idea of fantasy works was to explore fantasies while the reader doesn't have to leave wherever s/he is at. If I'm watching a movie, I may feel the villain is more fun than the hero, but it doesn't mean I'm going to re-create that crime spree. Considering the vast amount of provocative images one is exposed to any given day, we should have total lawlessness in the streets if viewing images caused people to commit crimes. If we follow their line of thought, pretty much all fictional works should be banned as potentially influencing people's actions. Even non-fiction is at risk. What if the readers try to imitate the events? All books on assasination must lead to assasination, right? All movies involving rape cause all the viewers to rape someone? Or do we really have to worry about the 1% (or less) who ARE influenced by these things? Shouldn't we be promoting their getting the help they need? National Healthcare might help there. (I know-no money). However, anyone doing these things (pedo, etc) needs help. Why should the masses who are unaffected pay for the ones who need & maybe ignore help offered to them? We just need to wrap the world in bubble-wrap, right? Make it conform to a G rating. |
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nekedo
 Posts: 94 |
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I don't think I'll ever understand how reading loli = destined to rape someone; and watching SVU or reading a murder mystery =/= going to kill someone.
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chicogrande
 Posts: 190 Location: Huntsville, Alabama |
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So, there it is, a risk exists if you order adult manga from Japan of finding yourself the focus of attention from the law. This is one of the few times I feel afraid of the country I live in. So, I imagine that all the shipments to the US from, for example, CDJapan get scrutinized by the USPS since it originates from Japan. Well people, just buy your adult manga from the US! It must be guaranteed free of whatever it is that landed this poor man into so much trouble. What was it anyway? The large eyes?
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Navak
Posts: 88 |
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Just wanted to point out, again, that this is a federal case.
It's simply being held in the Southern District Court of Iowa. If it was a state prosecution, I doubt it would get off the ground as state laws on obscenity provide a lot more exceptions and wiggle room, e.g. author's intent. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I've just ordered cds from them & none of those drama cds at that (just vocal)
Yep. I buy mine in person at local Japanese bookstores. After this broke, I wondered if they get hit, or if their being a business, they are considered ok. However, he was nailed for transporting obscene material across state borders. And yes, people on the threads have questioned how Playboy & the like can be shipped every month. Maybe because it's aimed at "normal" relationships & not homosexual? The wording of the accusation did sort of seem it was targeted for being homosexual in nature. (Maybe they thought it would be easier to prosecute on the community standards level?)
The description on the other thread by the man's defense attorney was the manga in question was yaoi with one character androgynous & looked under-age. How under-age nor the name of the title has been disclosed. It was mentioned some counts were thrown out, maybe these were the loli people spoke of earlier or maybe the loli was all fans jumping to conclusions. There may never have been loli. This could have always targeted the homosexual angle, but nothing has been disclosed. The androgynous line sort of reminds me of guys I know who've been suckered into thinking another guy is hot. (I worked with a guy who hated Poison because when their first lp came out he thought they were girls & one was pretty hot) |
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