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RagnaVII wrote:

@TitanXL Weren't you before told that a game's gameplay makes a game and not the genre? If you were a real gamer, you would realize that. Not to mention, there were loads of awesome Star Wars games as well. The ones on the SNES were awesome, challenging and had great controls, but then again, you're not old enough to remember SNES, so I'm not surprised you have no idea about them. You're not a gamer.

Not everyone is going to like every genre. Are you somehow not a music fan if you don't like every single genre out there? Or not an anime fan if you don't like every genre out there? It doesn't mean they aren't a gamer. Some people just don't like certain types of gameplay... like personally, I can't stand playing first person games, it makes me feel sick, but I still consider myself a gamer.

Pleinair92 wrote:

I think people did the right thing in regards to Roger Ebert. I believe that the best way to honor someone's life is to admit all of their flaws, even at the funeral.

Indeed. Roger Ebert was not a person who played video games, thus why he chose to give an "opinion" on them baffled me. Then he gives the weak excuse of "I don't have time to play them!", which just makes everyone wonder, "then why criticize an entire medium if you don't even have the time to give them a fair chance?"

But games can obviously be art. Stuff like Journey and Bioshock Infinite have far more artistic quality than most recent movies.

He's made other notable mistakes too, like essentially giving Gladiator a lower score just because his theater was poorly lit. Ebert is supposed to be reviewing movies, not the place that shows them since virtually all movie-goers won't be at that particular theater.

Listen, I respect the impact Ebert has had, and I give nothing but my deepest condolences to his loved ones. But the man was not without flaws just like the rest of us, and while I agree that criticizing him immediately after his death is in poor taste, it shouldn't stay the way forever. The man made some mistakes along the way, plain and simple.

doctordoom85 wrote:

But games can obviously be art. Stuff like Journey and Bioshock Infinite have far more artistic quality than most recent movies.

Strikes me as ironic and funny that you'd say something like this, doubtlessly out of almost total ignorance of what's in theaters now (and I don't mean whatever's been marketed to you heaviest - I mean what's out now in the world of film in multiplexes, arthouse theaters, on VOD and more) while also criticizing someone for DARING to have an opinion on something they're not an expert on.

He's dead. You slinging crap at his grave is just pointless whining into a void. Enlightens no one, helps no one, adds nothing. Makes you feel superior, I guess. But that's it.

BRS = digital only = no sale. I would not mind even a standard umd release, but as bad as this franchise is and as much as I hate digital only, this is not a game I will buy in digital.

I have all the ps2 games listed. I almost was about to play Grimgrmoire, but then found out it has yuri elements. Drakengard gets censored because it has incest elements, but some how other alternative lifestyle choices like homosexuality get a free pass. This is just another of the double standards that I dont care for nor do I support.

TitanXL wrote:

I do find most developers who say the industry they're in sucks tend to be either jaded and bitter old folks who haven't made anything substantial in 10+ years, or they tend to be hacks who make games that aren't popular or good and probably say as much out of spite.

Which describes Inafune to a T; it's even more irritating because if you look at his resume his credits as a designer, director, or writer were zilch. Seriously, he had never actually been a game designer during his entire career at CAPCOM. He PRODUCED a lot of stuff there, but his design or concept credits were few and it kinda paints him as a hack who took the credit for other people's ideas. Even Mega Man wasn't made by him.

ArcSys just announced the release date for Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R for Vita: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/04/10/guilty-gear-xx-accent-core-plus-r-for-vita-headed-to-u-s-this-month/

April 23 is going to be a good day for me as a Vita owner. Both this and Black Rock Shooter!

Last edited by TitanXL on Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

RyanSaotome wrote:

Not everyone is going to like every genre. Are you somehow not a music fan if you don't like every single genre out there? Or not an anime fan if you don't like every genre out there? It doesn't mean they aren't a gamer. Some people just don't like certain types of gameplay... like personally, I can't stand playing first person games, it makes me feel sick, but I still consider myself a gamer.

Pretty much. Gamer is such a useless term given how fractured the industry is in this day and age. Is it referring to the otaku who buys everything Idolmaster related, the 11 year old CoD player on Xbox Live who had sex with everyone's mom and likes to brag about it, or the mother who loves Angry Birds and Temple Run? Kind of silly to lump them all together in the same category

Making Metroid an FPS was my least favorite time of the franchise, though, but at least the main series on the GBA coming out at the time were great, and I doubt Rock Man would have fared much better in that genres. FPS is also my least favorite genre of games, if only because of how repetitive I find them.

doctordoom85 wrote:

But games can obviously be art. Stuff like Journey and Bioshock Infinite have far more artistic quality than most recent movies.

I find it ironic you use Bioshock Infinite as an example, because it's probably the most 'Hollywood' example you could use right now. A lot of modern games mirror the movie industry very much in the sense they get so much hype by fans and then they come out and everyone praises it and humps it then a few months later they forget about it and move on to the next thing. Happens with every new Call of Duty and various other games as well. And that's not getting into the actual meat of these games and how they're essentially popcorn flicks like The Avengers or any other superhero movie. Not that that makes them horrible games, but the movie and game industry are a lot closer than you think they are so praising one and dismissing the other is terribly ironic. Summer movie blockbuster fans and AAA Game fans are a lot a like.

CrownKlown wrote:

BRS = digital only = no sale. I would not mind even a standard umd release, but as bad as this franchise is and as much as I hate digital only, this is not a game I will buy in digital.

I have all the ps2 games listed. I almost was about to play Grimgrmoire, but then found out it has yuri elements. Drakengard gets censored because it has incest elements, but some how other alternative lifestyle choices like homosexuality get a free pass. This is just another of the double standards that I don't care for nor do I support.

So you are going to pass up a really great game because of those elements?? You do realize atlus of america has to choose their battles and incest overt-tones would hurt them to much.

TitanXL wrote:

RyanSaotome wrote:

Not everyone is going to like every genre. Are you somehow not a music fan if you don't like every single genre out there? Or not an anime fan if you don't like every genre out there? It doesn't mean they aren't a gamer. Some people just don't like certain types of gameplay... like personally, I can't stand playing first person games, it makes me feel sick, but I still consider myself a gamer.

Pretty much. Gamer is such a useless term given how fractured the industry is in this day and age. Is it referring to the otaku who buys everything Idolmaster related, the 11 year old CoD player on Xbox Live who had sex with everyone's mom and likes to brag about it, or the mother who loves Angry Birds and Temple Run? Kind of silly to lump them all together in the same category

Making Metroid an FPS was my least favorite time of the franchise, though, but at least the main series on the GBA coming out at the time were great, and I doubt Rock Man would have fared much better in that genres. FPS is also my least favorite genre of games, if only because of how repetitive I find them.

doctordoom85 wrote:

But games can obviously be art. Stuff like Journey and Bioshock Infinite have far more artistic quality than most recent movies.

I find it ironic you use Bioshock Infinite as an example, because it's probably the most 'Hollywood' example you could use right now. A lot of modern games mirror the movie industry very much in the sense they get so much hype by fans and then they come out and everyone praises it and humps it then a few months later they forget about it and move on to the next thing. Happens with every new Call of Duty and various other games as well. And that's not getting into the actual meat of these games and how they're essentially popcorn flicks like The Avengers or any other superhero movie. Not that that makes them horrible games, but the movie and game industry are a lot closer than you think they are so praising one and dismissing the other is terribly ironic.

Hmm I have thought long/hard on what games could be considered true art and some do come mind in the way of story telling or overall experience of the title.
1. Ico
2. shadow of the colossus
3. Heavy rain
4. Silent Hill 2
5. fragile dreams farewell ruins of the moon
6. Pandora's Tower
7. Metal Gear Solid 3
8. Final Fantasy 6

gatotsu911 wrote:

while unironically praising...The Fifth Element

But The Fifth Element is unironically great.

Anyone who enjoys The Fifth Element without a Category 5 level of irony isn't my friend anymore. Evil or Very Mad

Anyway. How many gamers even knew who Roger Ebert was before they heard that he was mean to video games?

CrownKlown wrote:

I have all the ps2 games listed. I almost was about to play Grimgrmoire, but then found out it has yuri elements. Drakengard gets censored because it has incest elements, but some how other alternative lifestyle choices like homosexuality get a free pass. This is just another of the double standards that I don't care for nor do I support.

That's a really roundabout way to justify your homophobia. And it doesn't even make practical sense.

How is it a double-standard when NISA has had nothing to do with any Drakengar release? Well, maybe they're involved in the new one (not sure if its even been mentioned, I doubt it) but its not even out in Japan yet, so how could you possibly know what they would do with it? And I think the only thing NISA has ever censored were rare occasions involving exceptionally skeevy things with reeeeeeeally young looking characters (i.e. Mugen Souls). NISA is one of the last companies that would censor incest, so they're the ones you should SUPPORT.

I like both GrimGrimoire and Odin Sphere, also I tend to not play first person games unless the game is an rpg or just too good to pass up.

Zac wrote:

doctordoom85 wrote:

But games can obviously be art. Stuff like Journey and Bioshock Infinite have far more artistic quality than most recent movies.

Strikes me as ironic and funny that you'd say something like this, doubtlessly out of almost total ignorance of what's in theaters now (and I don't mean whatever's been marketed to you heaviest - I mean what's out now in the world of film in multiplexes, arthouse theaters, on VOD and more) while also criticizing someone for DARING to have an opinion on something they're not an expert on.

He's dead. You slinging crap at his grave is just pointless whining into a void. Enlightens no one, helps no one, adds nothing. Makes you feel superior, I guess. But that's it.

Did you not read my post? Ebert wasn't merely not an expert, he had little to no experience playing video games period. Would you not be as irritated with me if I had watched no anime in my life but came to this forum to criticize the medium regardless?

It's not slinging crap at his grave to acknowledge his contribution to the film medium and to express condolences to his loved ones. Did you just cherry-pick read my post? I'm merely saying the man wasn't perfect, but ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED that throwing criticisms on the very same day he passed away was out of line.

Really? You don't know my mindset, so your "you're just saying that to make yourself feel superior" statement can easily be applied to what you just said.

Todd's statement about why people were irritated with Ebert's comments on video games felt incorrect to me, so I stated my opposing opinion. Hardly felt like I was out of line on this one. If Todd didn't want opposing opinions on his article, then the comments section shouldn't exist in the first place.

TitanXL: have you played Bioshock Infinite? I suppose if one considers stuff along the lines of Mad Men in terms of showing the darkest elements of a time period and dealing with quantum mechanics to be "Hollywood" then you and I must be dealing with a very different Hollywood.

cecil: Heavy Rain is filled with way too many plotholes, moronic character behavior, a revelation that contradicts the whole story, and blatant "rape-y" scenarios that encompass all but one of Madison's chapters. If you consider it art, that's fine, but Heavy Rain is one of the worst games of this generation IMHO

Last edited by Kakugo on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:10 am; edited 2 times in total

gatotsu911 wrote:

Anyway. How many gamers even knew who Roger Ebert was before they heard that he was mean to video games?

Siskel & Ebert At the Movies ran from 1985 to 1999. Ebert himself continued on without Siskel after his passing for about another decade, and continued writing reviews literally until his recent death. In short, he's been talking about what he did and didn't like about movies nearly twice as long as I've been alive - and by all counts, the man wasn't bad at it. Anyone familiar with the terms "two thumbs up", "four stars", or even the tongue in cheek 'the fat guy and the bald guy' dynamic of film criticism as entertainment knows who Roger Ebert is, even if they don't consciously realize it.

The disconnect here is from the fact that, for many gamers younger than myself, the notion of film criticism is something that probably appeared about the same time as "New Media" (ie: The Internet). In short, if you love movies - legitimately want to understand and appreciate them on any tangible level that isn't bro-fisting about badass the 3D in Transformers 10 was - you know who the fig Roger Ebert was. And if "gamers" literally didn't know who he was, they had no right to whine about his opinion to begin with.

That said, I disagreed with ol' Roger. Like, a lot. I never understood his "meh" reaction to even the concept of interactive entertainment, and I've always felt he looked down his nose at exploitation films and even art films that went down outrageous paths. But that doesn't mean I'd ever suggest his opinion, and his word, was unimportant. The man probably forgotten more about films than I'll ever know. If "gamers" don't know that, they can stuff it.

dtm42 wrote:

No. It stuck in our craws because his opinion mattered and it was wrong. Here was this influential guy essentially dismissing an entire medium and he was wrong about it. That's why.

Personally, I think games have the potential to be just as moving, immerse and brilliant as any film. But I play video games, and I have no legitimate criticism to being an educated art critic. I agree with what you're saying, but it's just a shame so many people lashed out at Ebert for being a monster who crapped in their sandbox when he basically just said "Meh, movies you can change by pressing buttons? I don't get it. This is stupid." The very nature of interactive mediums were at odds with what he saw as constructed art and storytelling. He called it as he saw it, just as art critics in the early 20th century were unwilling to acknowledge that films were a relevant medium possessing artistic merit. Nobody thinks film criticism just jumped up proof positive out of a vaccum, right? The same arguments people lob at games were used a century ago to pooh-pooh motion pictures, too, but familiarity with the medium and improved use thereof eventually convinced the world otherwise.

I disagree with Ebert's stance, but I also understand why he feels that way; he wasn't raised with the idea of electronics being anything but idiot boxes. He hasn't watched games evolve from the Atari 2600 to the Xbox 360. He hasn't spent the time one has to spend to understand why sinking 50 hours into an RPG like Skyrim can be a personal catharsis. He hasn't felt that masochistic fury of playing Mortal Kombat to 100% completion with every character. He doesn't understand why in Dark Souls the player dying a hundred thousand times could be seen as a good thing.

He doesn't know because he hasn't experienced it, and without experiencing it, it does all sound pretty goddamn silly. I don't want to say he was "too old", but he was disinterested, and well into the part in his life where suggesting he spent a hundred hours to complete a single title probably sounded alien and exhausting, and it's hard to blame the guy.

Much like film, video games will eventually come into its own as a respectable medium. We'll get there. It's just going to take time.

CrownKlown wrote:

I have all the ps2 games listed. I almost was about to play Grimgrmoire, but then found out it has yuri elements.

...the very idea of lesbians makes you not want to play a game you were otherwise interested in? Really? And if you already own it, you did "support" fictional lesbians. Unless you stole it, I guess. But whatever helps, I guess...

Quote:

"Drakengard gets censored because it has incest elements, but some how other alternative lifestyle choices like homosexuality get a free pass. This is just another of the double standards that I don't care for nor do I support.

Two completely different labels doing the localization, each approaching potentially controversial material in different ways. I'd be way more willing to support the title that did keep unusual forms of sexuality, but that's that's just me, hating censorship in general...

Back to the article itself, my first reaction to the Mega Man X FPS was "Oh, cool! They made a sequel to VANQUISH?" And once I understood what I was looking at, a tiny part of me curled up into the fetal position and wept. (And yet I love THE PROTOMEN... does that make me a hypocrite?) Totally unrelated, but I bought a Wii Classic controller last weekend specifically so I could play Mega Man X on the Virtual Console, upon realizing I no longer had my SNES cart. I never played the "X" sequels... now I wonder if the later games are lurking on the PSN somewhere.

It's through gritted teeth, but I'm willing to drop $20 on a download-only PSP title. A shame only Japan got that sweet Figma, but I was never crazy enough to think we'd actually get that stateside.

A shame I can't convince myself I actually need a 3DS. Soul Hackers looks neat!

(Edit: Something went very awry with a wayward ctrl+v.)

lostrune wrote:

Americans prefer hardcore and gritty to lighthearted and fun Laughing

You see that all the time in boxart changes from Japan to America, like American Kirby VS Japanese Kirby. Even the original Rock Man was given a more 'manly' look in the American cartoon series so he looked more like He-Man compared to his actual boy-like appearance in the games which was no doubt modeled after Tetsuwan Atom by Tezuka. In modern times a grim and gritty FPS would do better in America even if it's a betrayal of the character. Though speaking of boxart, am I the only one who thinks of the original American boxart for the first "Mega Man" game when they see a Megaman FPS? Laughing

Yeah I know all that, but what I mean is what it with the notion of "dark and gritty" that garners so much attraction? Just what do others see in it? I was speaking rhetorically.

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