Forum - View topicThe X Button - Sega Visions
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ParaChomp
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JackCox
 Posts: 386 |
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Am I the only one who caught the reference to Elisabet Vogler?
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2569 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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As someone who grew up with a Genesis & DC (my family went PS1 instead of Saturn), I really enjoyed Todd's retrospective on Sega. I also appreciated the acknowledgement that the SNES didn't take the lead until the mid-90s in North America, as many people like to perpetuate the false idea that the SNES was #1 from the get-go. The truth is that the Genesis took the lead every year from 91-95. It wasn't until after that point that SNES took the lead & eventually sold more overall. Part of the reason was because of games like Donkey Kong Country that really pushed the SNES hardware, but the other reason was also a big one: Promotion.
Really, the biggest problem with Sega as a hardware manufacturer was that the company was always at odds with itself because it never had a truly worldwide success story. The Master System/Mark III was a bomb in Japan & was mainly screwed over by Nintendo's draconian licensing control (which was essentially "make games for us & only us, or don't make games for us at all"), though it was successful in Europe & South America, but the Genesis/Mega Drive was a hit in North America (& Europe). Unfortunately, the MD was only 3rd place in Japan, so Sega of Japan obviously wanted to get to the next system as soon as possible, while trying to help the Genesis/MD with add-ons. When the Saturn was ready to go in 1995 SoJ essentially cut off all promotion for its predecessor, and Sega of America could only do so much on their own; they were kind of forced to treat the Genesis as an annoyance that wouldn't go away. It's kind of amazing that it even lasted until 1998 in North America, honestly. Interestingly enough, though, the reverse would happen a few years later. The Saturn was a big success in Japan, rivaling the PS1 pretty well, but was a bomb in North America (& Europe). Pretty much doing the same thing that happened to them, SoA (read: Bernie Stolar) wanted the next system out as soon as possible, and when the Dreamcast was ready to go SoA killed almost all promotion for the Saturn. SoJ was more or less forced to launch the Dreamcast in 1998, while still promoting a successful Saturn, while lead to it failing pretty hard. In comparison, SoA pushed the Dreamcast like crazy & ended up breaking the record for most successful entertainment product launch at the time. That's what I feel killed Sega's hardware sector. SoJ & SoA were always at odds with each other, and there are plenty of other examples of such animosity (just look at Sonic X-Treme's history), and that inability to work together was going to hurt any console the company built. Imagine if Sega as a whole still supported the Genesis/MD after the Saturn came out, like how Nintendo still was pro-SNES while the N64 was out. I won't say that the "winner" would have been different (personally, I call the "16-bit War" as an overall draw), but the final sales tally would have likely been closer & more late-era Genesis games would likely be celebrated now. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I am and will always be a Sega fan. I just had way too many countless hours of enjoyment with all their different properties to be anything else. I was a Sonic addict.
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thekingsdinner
 Posts: 1076 Location: Geertruidenberg, Netherlands |
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I've heard too many bad things about Sonic Boom. Looks like I won't be getting it.
Oh well, back to the Mega Drive, play some Sonic 1 & 2 and hunt down a copy of Sonic 3 later on. |
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Mr. Oshawott
 Posts: 6773 |
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A bit sad to hear that Sonic Boom didn't turnout to be as much of a success as I thought it would. It seems that the drastic changes to the Starring Four's appearances and personalities was simply too overwhelming for some. Plus, I hear that someone here has brought up glitch issues with the title?
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LuScr
Posts: 140 |
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As someone from the Master System era, I want to add one comment here. The biggest reason for the lopsided dominance of the NES vs the SMS, at least in the US, was Nintendo's incredibly abusive third-party licensing policies. If other companies wanted to make games for the NES, they were required to make those games NES exclusives (and though I can't recall clearly, they may have required that those companies not make any games for other consoles). This left Sega as essentially the only company making games for the Master System, and the lopsided library differential led to the wipeout. That policy was finally thrown out (in court, I believe, though again I can't recall for certain) around the time that the Genesis was released. Suddenly Sega had a real game library for the first time in the US, and that, along with the Genesis' head start on the SNES, allowed it to be competitive. |
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belvadeer
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Hit Maker: As someone who has played a little of their library, I can honestly say they're not really great at making hit games, despite the company's name. I completed Dragoneer's Aria and played a little of Blade Dancer. As far as their ideas go, Hit Maker's biggest problem was trying to cram a few too many systems into one game and it generally ends up a mess. When I finally finished Aria, I looked at my in-game time and it said 500:00. Five hundred hours!? The only other RPG I had ever spent that long on was Legend of Mana, but at least it was intentional. I realized most of those hours came from the slow pace of the battles; animations play out at an average pace in the game.
The same can be said of Blade Dancer, which also had the added annoyance of breakable weapons and limited inventory space. However, Blade Dancer did have some unique things going for its battle system, like the fact everything is in real time and both your party & the enemies draw from the same pool of energy for special moves & spells (basically you have to quickly get to the menu of the character whose ability you want to use before the enemy uses one of their own; if you don't make it in time, they use up the energy in the Lunar Gauge and you're left with no way to cast a spell). Some might see this as really bad game design, but at least Hit Maker gets points for being creative. Instead of just being able to spam your best ultra powerful group move, you're in a race against the enemy to make sure you can use it before they use their own high-powered attack. This alone adds a little spice to the often tried and true JRPG battle system of old. That said, I don't fault Hit Maker for at least trying to come up with decent titles. Dragoneer's Aria had an interesting story (a game about protecting dragons can't be all bad, though you don't really end up saving any of them in the end plus the ending is vaguely unfulfilling in terms of "saving the world") and the guard concept in battles borrowed a little from the Judgment Ring of Shadow Hearts fame. It is theoretically possible to block all damage 100% of the time no matter how strong the enemy is. Of course if all four characters just defend every round, the battle would never be over. But again, the idea is creative. However, Aria's biggest problem was having far too many things to level up: dragon orbs, spell orbs, guarding skill, each character's unique special skill. Trying to keep track of all that would probably drive even the most elite RPG enthusiast crazy. I have not played either A Witch's Tale or Last Rebellion, but I heard neither did too well, as everyone already knows. WT suffered from an annoying random encounter rate with enemies that had far too much HP for their own good, and had little else going for it. Last Rebellion had an incredibly dull presentation (world, characters, plot), but its battle system was their most creative effort with the idea of successfully "stamping" different parts of an enemy's body to increase damage and "sealing" enemies away so they don't revive after you decimate them. Unfortunately though, it looks like the battle system was the only place Hit Maker chose to concentrate most of their effort on Last Rebellion because nothing else about the game is really that remarkable. It's truly sad when a company has to declare bankruptcy, but I can admit Hit Maker was going nowhere with their releases. I know they were trying to improve, but when you release one game after another that continues to disappoint both buyers and publishers, it's hard to bounce back. The Sega Sector
What, really? That's not a good sign. Is it Sonic 2006 all over again, or even worse than that? I can admit I've never been one of the Sega kids. I was more Nintendo for a long time, until the PlayStation made its debut. That being said, however, I played Genesis games at my friends' houses throughout my childhood, and did like what I tried. From Sonic 1 to Sonic & Knuckles, they're all great games in their own right (though I never finished any of them sadly) and I did try a few others on the console too. As I mentioned previously, I do happen to still own a Saturn, though it wasn't till after Sega's departure from the console market that I purchased one from off of eBay so I could try Albert Odyssey Legend of Eldean (a wonderful JRPG localized by those wacky and awesome folks from Working Designs). I've been meaning to get other games for it, but they've been hard to acquire due to some rather high prices brought on by their rarity. Sadly I missed my chance with the Dreamcast, even though stuff like Sonic Adventure is downloadable these days. If another mega crossover like Project X Zone happens again, Sega can probably be content to let Monolith Soft borrow even more of their many characters to raise everyone's nostalgia meters (Phantasy Star and Shining Force characters would likely do the trick and maybe Sonic just to shut the whiny "Why wasn't Sonic in Project X Zone!?" idiots up).
Truly a shame they can't accept this and move on with the rest of us. When a developer says they're done, it means they're done. There are no maybes about it. |
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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Sega Cd and Saturn have some awesome games like PDS, Albert's Odyssey, Shining Force, Popful Mail, Rayknight etc.
Even the dreamcast had a pretty stellar library all things given, but it is what it is. |
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Drac
Posts: 165 |
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From what I've read the story behind Saturn's Sonic X-treme is far more interesting then the actual game itself. The problems between Sega of America and Sega of Japan is just bonkers and I'm surprised they got anything done.
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I'm pretty sure the Wii outsold the NES. Unless you mean sheer market share, in which yes, it'll never happen again as Nintendo was called out as a monopoly and forced to get rid of most of its anti-competitive policies, and thus such a monopoly will be impossible for the foreseeable future because it'll be illegal.
As a Sonic fan, I have stared into the abyss of the Sonic fandom many times, and there is an extremely loud (though not incredibly close unless you're a Sonic fan) minority who wants the SEGA vs. Nintendo console wars to be reignited. These are the people who either want Nintendo demoted to a 3rd party company so they can fight on even terms, want SEGA to start producing consoles again so, again, they can fight on even terms (not sure where Sony and Microsoft stand in this), or want Nintendo out of business completely as revenge. These are also the people who complained something fierce when Sonic was announced for Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They took it as an insult that Sonic is a guest character in a lineup celebrating Nintendo and the final nail in the coffin that SEGA and Nintendo are friends (which is the worst possible outcome for them). In other words, these are people who have not forgiven Nintendo for continuing to stay in business as a game console maker with lots of solid, well-liked hits where SEGA continues to languish with a stigma of mediocrity. They particularly disliked the Nintendo exclusivity deal, needless to say.
Definitely SEGA. The company remains a powerhouse in the Japanese arcade scene, and even in the United States it has cornered the non-arcade redemption machine market with Key Master, Barber Cut, and plain old classic claw machines. And yes, SEGA does make pachinko. It's one of the major pachinko manufacturers.
Was this a time when people actually LIKED being called a hipster? No doubt the aggressive image was due to the aggressive marketing campaign with its constant attacks on Nintendo. As a SEGA fan during that time myself, I can say it rubbed off on other people who chose the Genesis over the Super Nintendo: At my school, the Genesis kids picked on the Super Nintendo kids, teasing them mercilessly. The Nintendo fans soon learned just to stay quiet and avoid any discussions on video games, and they got their due when the consoles moved to the 5th generation.
It's not the character designs; that's the tip of the iceberg and the first thing Sonic fans took alarm in. Rise of Lyric had problems regarding stage design (stages are pretty empty, and platforming and fighting are extremely segregated), a largely connect-the-dots story where events lead to seemingly unrelated events, graphics not at a level present in the demos or pre-release screenshots, a lack of publicity, and a glitch involving Knuckles that lets him do infinite jumps and skip most of the game. The biggest thing that did this project in, however, was that the producer of the game, Stephen Frost, thought it would be a good idea to open up discussion for constructive criticism, not realizing Sonic fans aren't really that good at constructive criticism. He instead got so many nasty comments and death threats that he had to leave the Internet to recuperate. When your producer gets a breakdown, your project is going to be on shaky ground. And for those of you who don't want to click the link, this is what Frost had to say:
Note that this was in August 2014; by then, some key members of the production team had already quit the project. Also note that the uglier side of the Sonic fandom really IS like this; they constantly bicker among each other, and by this point, it was clear Rise of Lyric was not going to be like the Sonic they knew and loved. Lastly, Shattered Crystal (the 3DS one) has been better-received by critics and players alike, and I'd bet this is because they never opened up discussion the way Frost did and thus were shielded from Sonic fan vitriol. |
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EricJ2
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That said, we admitted in private that the JP support for SNES had it all over JRPG games-- Genesis had Phantasy Star II-IV, the SegaCD had Shining Force, and they were the top of the line, but that was IT. (I hesitate to include Sword of Vermillion, as fancy as its boss monsters were.) Nice as it was, it still wasn't the SNES's Legend of Mana, or Chrono Trigger, the Sailor Moon RPG, or (holy choir!) Final Fantasy V & VI. 
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Mr. Oshawott
Posts: 6773 |
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@leafy sea dragon
I know the character designs aren't the sole reason that Sonic Boom ended up being a colossal disaster. I've spent some time visiting Sonic Retro cruising through the last pages of the Sonic Boom thread and noticed the negative feedback that was prevalent throughout, as well as the obvious gliches that were displayed. So, yes, the folks were justifiably...dissatisfied that they were paying big money for a low-quality product. However, I agree that the insults and death threats from some of the Sonic fanbase was definitely shameful and intolerable. Here's hoping Stephen Frost makes a recovery from the unfortunate backlash; that's something no one should ever have to go through.
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CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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I'm a little surprised that Todd didn't like Hi-sCool! Seha Girls. Based on my avatar, I think the show is a blast. Of course, you'll like the show more if grew up playing the games and systems they reference, but the humor is lot more clever than it first appears. Seha Girls is basically Hyperdimension Neptunia done right. Also, why does Todd assume the show won't cover Burning Rangers or Panzer Dragoon? There are tons of Sega games the show could cover in later episodes or a future season. Anyway, I recommend checking out Seha Girls.
I think this is only partially true. Sure, all the annual Madden and sports games were more popular on the Genesis, but plenty of "nerds" and "geeks" back in the 90's enjoyed playing high speed action games. Otherwise, yeah, Sega always prided themselves on fast-paced arcade-style games, though they still had Phantasy Star, Shining Force, Valkyria Chronicles, etc. |
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Shippoyasha
Posts: 459 |
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"You won't see any of the adults-only material from the game's original Japanese release, but aren't visual novel fans supposed to play for the story?"
Not for me. I'm in it for the pure, unedited experience. If a VN is an Eroge or has erotic elements, I'd rather get the whole deal than get a cut version. |
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