Forum - View topicREVIEW: Maria the Virgin Witch BD+DVD
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23883 |
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This is a feeling completely unsupported by any facts. The show had a thread linked to the episode reviews - which several shows had - and it had a thread in the anime discussion forum. It's not as if ANN staff were pumping out special interest articles on the title. If it got more discussion among ANN posters compared to other shows (and I honestly can't remember if it did) that's a function of poster interest, not ANN promotion. As for reviews being biased ... yeah, I've seen tons of really intelligent commentary on that. Funny how when a reviewer likes a show that a so-called observer of "bias" doesn't, ANN is biased in favour and when a reviewer dislikes a show that a so-called observer of "bias" likes, ANN is biased negatively. Really illuminating analysis, that. |
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Snakebit1995
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There were multiple analysis o Maria during the last year, the original episode reviews and then it got another overall streaming review two months after it ended, I do remember Maria getting a lot of discussion back then, for better or worse. It is odd that the show got a seasonal episode review and then another post season review two months later. I'm not saying their was a Maria conspiracy, but the staff off this site, specifically certain reviewers, have a big hard on for witches in historical fiction anime and anime about a strong magical female protagonist that they use to push a very pro-girl power platform. I'm not saying that's inherently a bad thing but sometimes this site does have some reviewers who try and push a way of thinking in their review where it doesn't need to be, and there is sometimes one or two series that get a lot more push in one season than other, despite a lot of other sight agreeing that Maria is average and Izzetta has fallen hard (To the point even one of the shows Dub VA's made a facebook post voicing his disappointment at the later half of the season) you still see them a lot on this site. Again I'm not saying there's some deep conspiracy by the ANN staff to indoctrinate us all to their preferred genre of show, but I do think sometimes a show gets more push, sometimes deserved and sometimes not. |
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Nitsugalego
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OH BOY HE DONE SAID IT |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5450 Location: Iscandar |
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I think that the idea the Maria the Virgin Witch is being "promoted" to death because ANN has some kind of special interest is ridiculous. I never have gotten the impression that this show has received disproportionate attention at ANN. An even if that exaggerated focus existed, what would be so wrong with that? Maria the Virgin Witch is a great show, and fans of well crafted anime should celebrate it.
The ANN Cast is the only place where the hosts might have gushed out about MtVW. But remember the disclaimer that "the views expressed in ANN Cast do not reflect the views of ANN". |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9875 Location: Virginia |
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Reviewers are supposed to have and express their opinions. If they really like (or dislike) a show they are supposed to say so and explain why. I rather envy their ability to explain a good show. This is especially important when a show is complete as some do not live up to the expectations of the first few episodes.
The idea that ANN reviewers should somehow keep their personal beliefs out of their reviews is rather ridiculous. If a reviewer has a bias for or against specific concepts it is best that they be upfront about it. That way if you disagree you can make allowance for that difference of opinion when making your own buying decision. |
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epicwizard
Posts: 420 Location: Ashburn, VA |
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I remember dismissing Maria the Virgin Witch back when it first premiered and ignored it. However, I recently looked at more details of the series and I'm actually interested in giving it a try (now I regret judging the book by its cover). Once I'm finished watching at least one Fall 2016 anime (there's quite a handful of anime I'm currently watching), I'm watching this series next!
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18247 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Actually not odd at all. Some other shows which have gotten streaming episode reviews, streaming summative reviews, and BR/DVD release reviews so far included Yatterman Nights, Plastic Memories, Rage of Bahamut: Genesis, and Snow White with the Read Hair (okay, its BR/DVD review is pending but will be up sometime before Christmas), and those are only ones that I've been directly involved with. There are several others that will likely end up that way once their hard copies finally come out.
Izetta I can kind of understand, but Maria being regarded as no better than average on some other sites mystifies me. I have to wonder if the fact that it's not at all a conventional anime series has something to do with that. |
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Snakebit1995
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I wouldn't be surprised if Maria was revived as rather average by most sites due to the subject, it's definitely not for everyone, I for one didn't really care for Maria I only watched an episode or two before I stopped because I'm not huge on the "Magical Girl in History" genre and I only gave it a shot because of the dub and even then i was mostly bored through it. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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I know! How dare ANN assign review staff to watch shows that their demographic research indicates will be most interesting to their readers? Just because no one is interested in Bloodivores, that's no reason for them not to "push" it as equally as Yuri on Ice! I demand that the editorial staff use their unlimited budget to correct this imbalance! It makes me so mad that I have half a mind to renew my subscription for an additional year! |
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AholePony
 Posts: 330 Location: Arizona |
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I don't know what it is either. Maria ticks A LOT of boxes of things I like in anime but it left me cold. Watching it near the end became more of a chore than entertaining. I wish I could put my finger on what it was. The direction? Characterization? The huge tonal shifts that also fought with the fairly moe character designs and bright color palette? It's a show I thought a bit about because my opinion was miles apart from the weekly ANN reviews. I guess it just happens sometimes; a show is polarizing and no one really knows why. |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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Tbh, with the amount of adspace given to Monster Musume over the last few weeks, I wish they pushed shows like MtvW more.
At this point so much of this would need to be blacked out that I'd rather just say SPOILERS for the rest of the post, don't read if you weren't already.
It's precisely that interpretation that made the climax being this way stick in my craw. While I agree that one could read it as Joe's words leading Maria to some self-realisation, it didn't look that way to me. They could have had her get her powers back at multiple points prior: while ruminating alone in jail; when she's broken out; when she's saving Joseph or even while they were talking. But it waits for him to give those magic words that every girl longs to hear & she smiles so hard she shoots up into the sky in a sequence that I'm pretty sure intentionally parallels Wendy kissing Peter Pan in the 2003 film. Whatever may or may not be going on in her mind, the fact remains that it's an external act of validation from a male love interest that makes the magic happen, so to speak. If this were almost any other series, I'd be fine with that power of love giving our hero the final boost they need to win the day. But in this instance, relying on the trigger to be a guy saying I (still) love you to the girl who thinks she's been tainted by another man's assault on her just rubbed me up the wrong way.
& what would have been wrong with, say, Ezekiel having her wings confiscated & being made mortal? That would have had the same end, but not relied on Ezekiel being shot into Maria's uterus to get there. Unless you felt Maria needed a reason to have sex with Joseph (beyond just wanting to because who wants that amirite?) & thus lose her powers, since now if she wants to see her friend again she'll have to squeeze her out her snatch. Or, in her words: "So that dove is being pushed onto me, and I'm going to lose my powers?! That's exactly what the church of the heavens wanted to see!" She sure sounds happy. In truth, though, I think the writers of the show didn't actually mean for this to be more than a too clever by half attempt at another Jesus reference. I think they were stroking their beards at how clever it was having their Ezekiel being an angel reborn as a human in a heaven mandated birth. Though calling the loli-angel Isaiah would have made more sense, if that were the case.
Since the writing that has gotten Bernard so excited in the moments before Michael turns him to ash (or salt, I'm not sure) was as a result of his exchanges with Maria in prison, they can't be the same works from the beginning. Besides, whether there are other hidden copies doesn't matter to me so much as that they decided to end with Bernard's underling burning his writings. I'm not debating whether or not the man himself was worthy of smiting for being power abusing hypocrite who tried to have a woman raped to further his own ends. He's got to go, if only for narrative's sake. I just found it odd that they'd choose to end with the guy who, wicked as he was, was questioning church dogma having his works (& himself) burned by heaven & his underling who is as dogmatic as they come (& wanted Maria dead from the start). Incidentally, MtvW takes place around the same time as the Hussite wars. [quote]
But their partnership is unequal simply by vitue of how much more Maria has to give up to have it. Maria is a witch whose powers, once the curse comes into play, are explicitly tied to her remaining a virgin. She's an outspoken & headstrong girl who, while coming to understand that "I do what I want because I think I'm right" is an attitude that helps no one, is still forced, ultimately, to give up her witch identity if she wants to be a wife. Joseph, meanwhile, is just some guy who's there & who gives up nothing to get the heroine. Yes, you can argue that the point is that she doesn't need to be a witch to still be her. To which I'd respond that by the same token why should she have to give up being a witch at all? What about her being a witch, at least once she's learnt not to whip out her big snake every time something she doesn't like is happening nearby, is incompatible with her living a happy, loving, fulfilling life? It's not like magic & the supernatural suddenly stops existing at the end of the series, since as the review says this show equates the power of the supernatural with the power of human belief in it (very much like Discworld). If this was MobPsycho100, where the main character wants to get away from having his identity revolve around his power, I'd by more inclined to be fine with it. But throughout MtvW it's other people who have a problem with Maria using her magic so openly & they ultimately get what they want, even if she is apparently happy to throw in the towel. Admittedly there's her slow aging that has to be taken into consideration, but then again I don't think many people have told Superman he has to purposely age himself to be fair on Lois Lane (cue someone linking Action Comics issue I-don't-care where just that happens).
I'm sure you have binders full of them, but it's not relevant. edit: Not that others don't share your opinion or disagree with mine, which I'm sure many do. It's just that it's not relevant unless you're referencing others arguments to support your own or refute mine. Last edited by Lemonchest on Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2251 |
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Man, I keep forgetting this series exists! Probably means I should watch it sooner rather than later, but yeah, this totally flew under my radar, even though I kept up with the reviews pretty regularly, just because I tend to like reading Gabriella's reviews.
The weird quasi-accusations of Theron's bias totally stump me, though. JesuOtaku or Gabriella I could understand, as both of them tend to comment more on the socio-political implications of a work and its reflection on society (which I like, but doesn't always sit well with people), but Theron always struck me as the most straightforward reviewer, someone who comments mostly on the content of the episode itself rather than predictions or its implications; not that his reviews are somehow the lesser for it, just that they give me a strong "just the facts, ma'am" sort of vibe. If anything, I've always felt that his views on shows tend to match most closely with the overall mainstream view of a given show and/or season, which makes me wonder if Maria isn't something of a dark horse/potential sleeper hit that's maybe more suited to a marathon viewing as opposed to a weekly one. Anyways, as someone who's not knee-deep in Medieval History (or, any history, really), good to know that this is one series that tackles Christianity in a form beyond window dressing and apparently did its research! Always appreciate it when a studio goes the extra mile, and that makes me determined to find time for this. |
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Edl01
Posts: 117 |
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One of my favorite shows from last year. Just a generally really well made show, all that was holding it back from me considering it as a classic is that I strongly disliked the ending, but with the journey as damn good as Maria's it is still totally worth some recognition!
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jroa
Posts: 538 |
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I can agree the show did tend to get darker, for a while, but not to an excessive degree. Especially not by anime standards, I'd argue, where far more radical shifts are not uncommon to see. In fact, I'd say anime and manga have historically been able to address plenty of controversial material even with such types of character designs, right from the days of Osamu Tezuka himself. WARNING, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS in the rest of this post
spoiler[I'd say that what happens inside Maria's mind is pretty important. But your point of view seems to be implying that because the show didn't go for exactly the type of portrayal you were expecting in every single scene, regardless of its own rules and internal logic allowing for what actually happened, then it's exactly the same as if it had done almost nothing in that respect and is thus no better in terms of gender representation than Peter Pan in the end.] spoiler[Everything you've mentioned happened only after Maria herself had actively saved him. That's fairly significant because she was the big damn heroine, not him, who was vital to defeating Galfa. I think that alone already makes it clear who, if anyone, was the dominant party in that whole scene and arguably in their relationship. It certainly wasn't the male love interest who was taking charge of matters and saving the girl. I think that's a good message in and of itself. That's why the Peter Pan comparison is not too relevant either, because Maria's actual portrayal is nothing like Wendy's. They couldn't be more different in most ways. But even so, I don't think interesting female characters should be forbidden from having those feelings. For that reason, I'd say that context plays an important role in determining the meaning of the sequence instead of just looking at her reaction in an isolated manner from both the rest of the show as well as her own character].
spoiler[Do you really need me to describe what happened immediately after that phrase was spoken? Because it's almost insincere to imply she's actually mad about the situation. Not to mention her interactions with Ezekiel, which started out rough at first yet ended up being quite positive and outright forgiving.]
Just to nitpick: the manga itself has that particular element of the outcome, so that's not something the anime writers decided on their own. It's also called Maria the Virgin Witch, right from the start, so they're not hiding anything about what sort of parallels are going to apply.
spoiler[I'd definitely argue that Maria may have only "stopped" being a witch in the literal sense (notwithstanding some ambiguities that I'd rather not discuss now) and yet still remains one in the figurative or symbolic one, which is ostensibly just as or even more important in the long run.]
Let's not get personal here. I was, although indirectly, referencing the arguments expressed by Gabriella and others. So it's relevant, especially when you're apparently implying that the show is ultimately not valuing women or even somehow condemning them to a life of servitude to man. Last edited by jroa on Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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phia_one
Posts: 1657 Location: Pennsylvania |
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I really enjoyed this show and pretty much agree with everything the review said. However, I wasn't a big fan of the ending, but that won't stop me from owning and watching this again at some point.
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