Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is Anime Fandom More Dysfunctional Than In The Past?
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
I_Drive_DSM
 Posts: 217 |
|
|||
|
There's a lot more content that's available nowadays which has only fueled the toxicity. I remember back in the early 90s most "casuals" - like myself - at absolute best simply argued against what was actually out at the time, which were "I like this more than this" type conversations. At best the US got less than 20 titles a year which didn't give a lot of content. Now it seems like we get double that amount of material just in one season. I honestly don't even remember much sub/dub debate simply because most everyone I knew watched dubbed material due to it's lower purchase cost. Dubbed VHS tapes were often $10 and sometimes more cheaper a tape ($20-$25 for dub as opposed to $30-$35 for sub), which if you were budget conscious about your anime you took that into consideration.
|
||||
|
||||
Heishi
 Posts: 1328 |
|
|||
|
I would make the argument that is had gotten more toxic and you can't find a better example of that than the groups I go to on Facebook and the comments and videos I see on Youtube, but and this is just a but, this is all coming from my own experience.
It's a harsh climate, but its there. |
||||
|
||||
Brand
 Posts: 1028 |
|
|||
Oh, yes I do. I was super into the yaoi fandom at the time and even I thought they were stupid. I do think behavior at conventions has gotten better (for the most part) over the years. Some of it is a cultural shift to just respect people and their personal space. And some of it is conventions having time to work things out and get better at running smoothly. My first convention, Otakon 2001 was a glomp fest where random people were just running up and hugging people. Now, at least you get asked first. |
||||
|
||||
DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1117 Location: Puget Sound |
|
|||
Nope, they aren't. I've been involved in various fandoms since the early 70's - and anime fandom is really just more of the same. To younger fans, lacking the long term background, it may seem more intense and toxic nowadays... But really in most respects it isn't. |
||||
|
||||
|
DerekL1963
Subscriber Posts: 1117 Location: Puget Sound |
|
|||
Having grown up in the fandom era of snail mail mimeographed (and later xeroxed) fanzines that came out at intervals of weeks or months (or sometimes years)... This just makes me smile. |
||||
|
||||
|
HdE
Posts: 50 |
|
|||
|
Having notched up a similar number of year in the anime fandom to Justin, and having read this column with great interest, the ony real surprises I've had came in the time I ran the HdE Does Anime Youtube channel (you can look for it, folks, but the content's all gone, thanks to Youtube's dreadful policies.)
Basically, ovr the course of two years, I was fortunate to find a small audience of folks who got what I was doing - providing my own personal opinions of whatever anime I had recently seen and packaging that opinion for public consumption. Sadly, in the space f time towar dthe end fo the channel, I received more negative comments than positive. And the kicker is that these comments revealed some very unpleasant sides, not so much of anime fans, but of human nature itself. It BEWILDERS me that there are some folks out there consuming anime who are, to be blunt, best described as card carrying racists. That was definitely the single worst experience I had dealing with anybody in my comments section. Beyond that, there were some irritations, but nothing I couldn't see coming before I even set up the channel. Kids who have seen three shows who think their knowledge is better than mine. Accusations that I hadn't done research simply because I didn't mention an incidental detail about a show in the course of a review. Snotty, aggressive remarks that do little but state the opinion of the person posting them and dare anyone to disagree. It all got so tiresome that I eventually decided I'd simply delete anything I didn't like, no questions asked. Life is too short. I think the thing to keep in mind - and it's something I find I have to remind myself of from time to time - is that being a fan of anything is always a better social experience when you accept that nobody's experience with it makes them a better or worse fan than somebody else. All that matters is that people have found something they enjoy. Last edited by HdE on Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
Aokani
 Posts: 8 |
|
|||
I went to my first convention in 2003 and it was like that. Ugh, I didn't like it at all. |
||||
|
||||
|
H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
|
|||
|
I feel I must defend Gate Keeping, as long as the gates are real. If you're into mecha anime and you haven't seen...more than one Gundam, it is impossible to take that one seriously. Proper gatekeeping just makes it so everyone in the conversation has an equal base level of experience. I feel the problem is on the extremes, when someone without the proper experience is trying to claim far too much stature. What would compel a person to call themself a fan of something that they are still new at? I like shoujo romance stories, I wouldn't argue I was a knowledgeable fan. I could defer to my superiors on the topic. This creates a relationship dynamic and we have something to talk about. It establishes credentials. If you say "You haven't watched any magical girl anime until you've seen Sakura!" And the other person thinks you're a gatekeeping meanie, chances are they couldn't take a joke either.
Then you have on the other side the nasty gatekeepers that simply are trying to find any way to keep the New Guy out. For them trying to set the bar is just an act to keep you out. They aren't looking for a bare minimum to verify enthusiasm. They are just doing that to establish themselves as a god and you as a peasant. But seriously, if you want to get into something, and have the enthusiasm, you'll cruise on in regardless of gatekeepers. If your enthusiasm is so low for the field you can't be bothered, why should these gatekeepers bother with you, either? As for the nature of fandoms in recent times, I think we're mostly fine. Ever watch a home made video of a super early anime club in the US? It is depressing! We've come a long way. Sure there's problems. I think the biggest problem is we have so much content there are so few unifying threads. Even the most popular anime of the year will go missed by many. Without much to hold us together, I think that'll do far more harm than just a few internet meanies. |
||||
|
||||
|
DerekL1963
Subscriber Posts: 1117 Location: Puget Sound |
|
|||
Maybe you're not aware of of the definition of 'fan'? Nothing at all in there about experience.
Says the guy who just defended exactly that behavior. You can't have it both ways. |
||||
|
||||
|
HdE
Posts: 50 |
|
|||
|
The thing is, what does it actually matter if somebody says they like something and then reveal that they haven't seen something we'd personally rather they had?
Seriously, if you're going to judge somebody else's quality of fandom based on your own arbitrarily concocted set of guidelines, that's asking for trouble. "Hey, you haven;t seen a proper magical girl show until you've seen..." "You aren't a mecha fan unless you've seen..." "You can't call yourself an anime fan until you've seen..." Respectfully, that's all nonsense. People can call themselves a fan the INSTANT they realise they enjoy something and want to spend more time with it. That's all it takes. Snobbery and elitism, gatekeeping - call it what you will. It's entirely negative. It's the foundation that divisions get built upon. Just, you know, enjoy your Japanese cartoons and don't be complete donkeys to each other. How hard is that, really? |
||||
|
||||
EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
|
|||
Although back in the pre-Internet founding days of US anime, Sub Vs. Dub was an actual battle, as fans saw the very fate and future of the entire industry riding on it: Mainstream outlets preferred dubs, dubs were the only form you could get most of your VHS from, let alone that TV dubbing was so legendarily awful-- And since the sub VHS market was both gentrified and second-classed into a "hidden" market that you had to seek out back-corner comic shops or Internet fansub-traders to find, and then be socked an extra $10 price-hike for, there was a little resentment about "laziness" in return...And defending early Coastal and Ocean VHS dubs meant that you were probably some traitorous Pokemon/4Kids-lover. While it was THE division among fans, it also strengthened our fan convictions, since sub fans had to explain to lazy or new-kid "unbelievers" why Sailor Moon wasn't as ridiculous as it looked if you heard Usagi's original voice, and that led to more discussions about discovering the true appeal of the show. (Or, in the case of Lupin III or Sgt. Frog, what its US distributors had done to it, thus requiring true fans to seek out the original.) When anime went DVD, and then Streaming, and thus easier to get, it turned into the exact same movie/gamer/comics argument of ANYTHING that's now easy for pubescent new fans to get their hands on: Subs vs. Dubs becomes a question of What Do You Like vs. What Totally (Stinks), at which point the rage issues becomes "Stop liking things I hate!...That's worse than hating things I like!  "
But that's only because Amazon got rid of their double-paywall channel, that they're no longer the Incarnation of Evil On This Earth. Can't help noticing that the most angry-divided fans tend to start arguments over the shows, services and trends that any new fan can get for free, or with very little effort away from the mainstream: In addition to the complaints about "Why can't I watch Crunchyroll's new series in the Andes mountains of Chile?", they tend to be about Netflix and Amazon--where most new fans would automatically look for their regular service to "give" them anime without seeking out CR or Funi--or about the particular mainstream-overexposed series a new fan could run into on the usual suspects with even less effort. With the entire industry at the fingertips, there's no need for new fans to delve into the history of how much commitment it once took to be a fan, and streaming an anime binge can be done in the same movements as streaming a Rick & Morty binge. Which turns a downtrodden but idealistic fandom in the shadowy corners into standard garden-variety geek-fandom on the Net, and any gripe of the moment--usually from the first series you watched--is now a Major Issue....Whether it's Why Naruto/One Piece Filler Episodes Should Be Banished From the Earth, or Why Every Show Is Now Harem/Fan-service, Just Like Sword Art Online. |
||||
|
||||
|
katscradle
Posts: 469 |
|
|||
I’m beginning to wonder if achieving balance over your experience isn’t a little more difficult these days. I first stepped into this fandom over 20 years ago. I engage in a good deal of filtering on social media platforms and I’m still ending up seeing some drama that happens. So much I couldn’t even tell you exactly when the last tiff left off and a new one started. Controversies over piracy, professional translations, spoilers, verbiage policing, pedophilia, antis, appropriation gatekeepers, Nazis, excessive tweeting at JP creators and probably some other junk already happened this year and we’re only three months into it. I don't even engage since I learned a long time ago to leave such things where they fall when they land near or come at you. I always curate my circles carefully but, even some fans I’ve been friendly with for years will suddenly surprise me. I had to cut out several such people last year. There have been some other fans or groups I’ve been aware of for some time with certain agendas that on the surface seem reasonable but, I know the red flags and the horrible behaviour. So when it feels they're picking up more traction in the last year I find it a bit frightening. A lot of things are just reminiscent of years past and yes the media we like is still here and fandom is still here. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say the discourse has been making me feel similar to about ten years ago when I did stop consuming anime and manga for several years. That was just another conversation recently about people not getting into something or quitting. I’ve been trying to manage the fandom drama by taking short breaks since last year and engaging with more consumers and bloggers outside of Japanese culture. I stick my toe in several fandoms and they’ve got some troubling aspects too. But, I don’t know if I’m going to last the year before I stop. |
||||
|
||||
|
bhl88
Posts: 255 |
|
|||
|
The need to feel special or to vent frustrations (revenge) on the mundane world that wronged you by keeping other people out?
|
||||
|
||||
stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
|
|||
|
I don't consider it any more contentious than usual. Some of the subject matter varies from time to time, but the core of it still revolves around arguing for the sake of arguing.
The biggest conflict in any fandom spat tends to be that Person A says something that irks Person B, and then Person A doesn't take kindly to that. Things get passive-aggressive, things turn heated, they start taking potshots at one another. Yada Yada Yada. You run into that sort of word soup across the internet. It's only worse to the degree that there are more places than ever for strangers to interact and disagree. People want to be right, and they don't see any need in bowing out of their position to some random they'll never interact with again. Idk. It's a nuisance to witness on a regular basis, which is why I tend to ignore it after I get a feel for the issue. (The argument tends to go in circles or stray off-topic). And I tend to avoid most arguments that are noticeably hostile in nature. There's never going to be any real benefit to engaging with that sort of person. You can diffuse a lot of arguments in advance. There's just not very many people online that have developed the skillset for it. Sucks to admit, but it is what it is. You role with it. Shutting people's arguments down or blatantly disregarding them just antagonizes them further and creates all kinds of bad blood. Usually those situations call for a moderator to intervene. Don't argue your point. You've already made it. Just take an interest in the person disagreeing with you. If they seem heated, apologize to them for upsetting them. They often times start showing their humanity afterward. And if they don't, lay it to rest and stop interacting with them. Works miracles. It's a lot of choosing your battles. Some people are worth engaging. Others aren't. And some people deserve a good suplexing. But that's not really your war to wage. We're here to chatterbox about anime and then go about our business. There's no real reason to bicker back and forth. Some people just need to let off some steam. Don't take it upon yourself to put them in their place. That's a recipe for disaster. And having said all that, know that you won't always put your best foot forward. It happens. Don't beat yourself up about it afterward. If you find yourself in an argument that can't be avoided, say whatever needs to be addressed as kindly as you can, and then kill the conversation in a cavalier fashion. Don't try to get the last word in edgewise. Eh. That's most of the advice I have on the subject. Had a lot of online experience over the years.  .
Fun Answerman, Justin! |
||||
|
||||
|
Chrono1000
|
|
|||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group