Forum - View topicREVIEW: Yuri!!! on ICE BD+DVD
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kinghumanity
Posts: 365 |
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Hahahaha. No. I couldn't care less about the Crunchyroll awards. I only brought it up because Chapman brought it up. But apparently people are way too sensitive and defensive about it. Let me repeat myself: The show was average to decent, and unremarkable in every way, shape, or form, except for its LGBT portrayals. If people want to praise it for its positive LGBT portrayals, that's fine, and YOI deserves good credit for that. But it does NOT mean the show gets a bell curve grade. |
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Stuart Smith
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That's probably a good examples of the differences between the American fandom and Japanese fandom. Any review that tries to bring Trump into the discussion is obviously biased, but Yuri/Victor is a poster child for "LGBT" here, despite the criticisms of it already mentioned in the topic. Obviously, fujoshi, otaku, and Japan in general doesn't care about that stuff. Reading a few comments on it as a reverse import, I see complaints about the lack of Yurio on this release. So yes, you can see why Yurio is so prominate in all the promotional art. Japan loves him. -Stuart Smith |
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TasteyCookie
 Posts: 421 |
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I thought the show was alright. The biggest problem for me was I absolutely loved the first 1/3 of the show. But then it became a formulaic sports show (with shoddy animation which apparently has been fixed) and completely threw away character development time for Yuri and Victor. The emotional moments between them were the best parts of the show for me which is why the last 2/3 made it drop heavily on how much I enjoyed the series.
It'll be interesting to see how successful it is for Funimation, just to see the Fujoshi buying power in the West compared to Japan. How it's rated among fans is definitely mixed, just by looking at standard scoring sites. I wouldn't call it amazing, nor bad, just a flagship for a specific fandom. Many of our best selling breakouts over the years have been just that, though that generally just applies to Japan, and best sellers in the West tend to be very different. |
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Songster01
Posts: 73 |
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Brilliant review, Jacob! Thank you for putting it into historical context. It's such a rich series that you easily could have (as others have) written metas on single episodes, on the figure skating references, on sexuality, etc., but I haven't seen a meta discussing the external context for many Western viewers to quite this extent elsewhere.
I'll put this review alongside Patricia Longwood's literary meditation on the show and rl figure skating: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/31/magazine/winter-olympics-figure-skating-jason-brown.html for prospective viewers. It's the most joyous anime series I've enjoyed since I began watching anime in the late 1970s. It brought me back to the world of figure skating, which it references and celebrates so gorgeously. It continues to receive love from real skaters because of that respect; most recently American ice dancer Joe Johnson showing off his LE YOI copy while wearing his JJ shirt. It even helped me work through the grief of losing my own dog (as Yuuri does and Victor almost does). Even a thank you to the creative team seems insufficient, given what they sent out into the world. [/url] |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Funimation's LE went out of print mid-February, we'll see if that's just due to an extremely ardent core fanbase, or more widespread appeal. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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Nice that they re touched spoiler[Yurio winning performance from the last episodes, considering its supposed to be some sort of amazing performance the actual sequence was pretty disappointing. I'd need to see Phichit entire sequence to be sure but honestly if needed to be redone from ground up so I doubt they can salvage all of it.] |
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danpmss
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Well, I only see fujo-bait and a huge waste of potential for actual LGBT+ portrayal or content.
It could have been so much better in that regard, and I have quite a few gay friends who thought the very same. People see it as the big highlight of the show, and we saw it as an scarce attempt of doing it and instead covering it with manservice for fujoshi. The final episodes in particular felt very underwhelming. Would give the series a 7,5/10 for all of its qualities, but I definitely not see it even as a BL anime at all. We had no kiss (yes, that was no kiss, they would have shown it, they had no reasons not to), no confirmation of the relationship status other than almost platonic interactions with lots of sexual tension (actual fujo-bait sport anime have all those undertones too,although not even near as well executed and presented regarding the specific topic in hands -Yuri on Ice being THE example most of my friends were hoping for to an actual LGBT supportive sport anime (finally, and with a great sport for that as well) to be- thus the even bigger wasted potential when it turned out that even the mostly fanservice "Free!" had a more conclusive development and a clear objectiveness with their themes to follow through, and that wasn't even really a LGBT anime at all, if you really take a better look at it), no nothing, only heavy implications at best. Anyway, the Bluray fixed some glaring animation issues, but I couldn't care less about those things as long as the content is good, so it won't really add much to my score. Last edited by danpmss on Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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Some people make YoI out to be some sort of godly "representation messiah", but it's pretty clear it's not THAT different from your typical, garden variety fujoshi show. It pushed the enveloped somewhat, but not nearly enough. I guess fujoshi just simply prefer the ubiquitous ambiguous subtext present in every fujoshi-bait anime ever. |
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Maidenoftheredhand
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Really? I better buy it soon then. Was waiting to see if it would go down in price on Amazon. |
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whiskeyii
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I dunno, I still think YoI is something of an outlier when it comes to specifically "fujoshi" shows; there's a reason the fujoshi community has a bit of a rep when it comes to enjoying problematic elements in BL fiction. For me, at least, it was nice to see a consensual gay relationship with none of the "but we're both guys"/creepy power dynamics/questionable consent issues that tend to litter at least what we in the West get in terms of BL content. I think YoI's lack of an exploitative undertone went a long way in contributing to its mainstream popularity, at least in the West. |
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kazenoyume
Posts: 425 |
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This is extremely incorrect. Japanese fandom complains ALL THE TIME about the same thing Wilag did. They're constantly replying to posts, offering up feedback, etc. about how frustrated they are that the marketing treats Yurio as as much of a protagonist as Yuuri. Yurio merchandise sells for a couple dollars here and there, even rare Yurio merchandise, whereas rare merchandise of Victor and Yuuri can sell for hundreds. It confuses fans because it doesn't even make sense from an economic perspective to do it the way they've done. When all the bonus features for the last blu-ray were announced and they were revealed to be Yurio-centric, the tweets announcing them had dozens upon dozens of replies from fans upset they weren't doing anything for Yuuri, the actual protagonist. The original blu-ray artwork featured Yurio on two of the six dvds, and Yuuri on all but one. The funimation LE features the art from the sixth Japanese blu-ray. In fact, the non-LE Funi release that has Yurio on it is the one that actually features non-original release blu-ray art. I don't know what fans you found, or if you even found any at all, but they are definitely a minority. Yurio definitely has fans; he's not unpopular or anything, but to say his popular is dwarfed by Victor and Yuuri would be a huge understatement. He's probably a bit MORE popular in the West than he is in Japan. You're also wrong about it not being discussed among the LGBT community over there. Numerous LGBTQ publications have done articles about it, it's been discussed as lgbt media even on tv talk shows (including a prominent one where the man, who is a long time activist mangaka, went on about how it avoided skeevy BL tropes, how they felt like a 'real couple', and how great that was to see). Obviously Japan is not a hivemind and there are a lot of fans who don't really care about it being LGBT representation and just like it as a show, but a lot of them do. The official YOI twitter account has also RTed articles about it being an LBGT series before too. To address one other thing not brought up in your response but brought up by others; censorship. 'They could have shown the kiss'. Actually they couldn't have. Yamamoto outright said that she had to force the scene in as was, because the powers that be fought hard against it. You're comparing it to a NETFLIX show that's rated MA and a theatrical movie, both of which would have much looser restrictions than a network television show (that's not labeled BL). In addition to this, the show has struggled with censorship even AFTER it aired. The rings that people like to act like aren't a big deal? Publishers and magazines have forced MAPPA artists to remove them from official art. This has happened on multiple verified occasions, and has happened via multiple publishers. Yamamoto shopped this show around for years, and no one would accept it as she presented it. People even tried to get her to do a 'high school skating club anime'. It wasn't until Mappa came along that her proposal was taken seriously, and they've openly talked how they want to support her every step of the way and how they know some people will disapprove of the series but they still want to pursue it. They were as explicit as they could be in the tv anime. This has been made clear in interviews. They did suffer huge attempts at censorship, but even though Mappa's not a big name studio and Yamamoto, although considered somewhat of an auteur, is not only not a big name director but also a woman in an extremely sexist industry, they still pushed for the story they wanted to tell and the relationship they wanted to convey. Half the time in interviews, Yamamoto and Kubo have to skirt around how to state things because of the magazines they're being published in (you know, the same ones that censor rings), and while Western fandom continually gets on their case for being 'too vague' much of Japanese fandom considers them quite bold because they have the social context (FYI near the beginning Japanese fandom considered Kubo a little too vague and wishy washy, but Kubo's outright noted in more recent interviews, that she realized people didn't like ambiguity and wanted to make sure not to allow that in the future). It's not a coincidence that the person who has most openly discussed the romance (outright referring to it as 'renai') is Mappa CEO Manabu Otsuka. He's the one whose position is by far the safest. A TV station could not demand his removal. Even the over inclusion of Yurio, although not definitive, is thought by many to be a result of magazine and merchandise publishers wanting to make big bucks off YOI, but not wanting to acknowledge the gay. Shove the kid in the middle and people will still buy it, because it's YOI merch, basically. This is kind of exacerbated by the fact that some of the official art before they became an actual couple in the anime was a little shippier. Kubo's actually noted more than one time that she has absolutely no say in which merchandise is created (which is pretty standard for someone in her position FYI). This is all true stuff. People need to stop acting like YOI coasted through the production process by being gay but not too gay and realize they fought censorship every step of the way and that it ended up being as explicit as it was, was impressive. There's not been another anime like this on tv, about two adult men falling in love and ending up in a relationship that's pretty much stated to be 'forever', and the idea that what YOI did is the easy way out is insulting to the cast and crew behind this series in addition to incredibly false. You don't have to like it, but please respect what it fought hard to do. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11431 |
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My biggest disappointment was that they replaced all but the last couple of OPs with the next-to-final form instead of the week-by-week building they did in the tv releases. I guess the latter was an artifact of rushing it out the door, but I liked seeing how it changed each week.
The other problem for me was the lovely artbook that came with the set (and making the artcards not fit inside the case). It's got lots of good stuff in it, but they crammed so much into a BD sized book that they had to use the nearly invisible 4pt font used for the boilerplate on disc cases, and I can't read any of it without a magnifying glass. I think even someone with 20/20 vision would have trouble with it. Imagine entire paragraphs of text that look like this. The commentaries were interesting, but they were not touching the gay content with a ten-foot-pole. The avoidance was so blatant it was actually more humorous than offensive.
Nope, though it's less on rightstuf, even there it's about $10 more than when I got it 2 months ago. If you're going to buy it, don't wait. |
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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So why did they treat YoI as something unheard of when there are a few precedents? |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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I think it depends on what you consider representation. Personally, I want more anime where the main focus is on the story or character arcs, and two male characters or two female characters just happen to be in a relationship. Where the romance is not a novelty or the main focus of the show, and in the universe of the show it's not a big deal. I equally enjoy shows that try to make a statement about LGBT+ issues or shows that focus on the romance of two homosexual characters. But I think it's equally important to get to a point where such couples can be shown on screen without making a big fuss over it. To the point where it's normalized.
And YOI is that kind of show for me. It is more focused on the characters' internal conflicts and figure skating in general, and Yuuri and Victor just happen to form a strong bond and relationship during the course of it. It avoids the tropes in fujoshi shows that annoy me (specifically anything that comes across as sexual harassment, and a lot of the seme/uke undertones), and presents their relationship in a respectful manner. There is no question in my mind that Yuuri and Victor became a romantic couple during the course of the show. While I can understand why some people have doubts or think that the creators are just baiting or playing coy, I think it was a stylistic choice to show the progression of the relationship in a non-voyeuristic manner (i.e. not explicitly showing the kiss). But the show also presents enough nonverbal cues to support that there is a romantic relationship between the two. It is only with Yuuri that Victor is able to be himself and let loose. His heart-shaped smile only shows up in Yuuri's presence and with increasing frequency over the course of the show. In the first three episodes, Victor is still using his showman, public persona around Yuuri - the Victor Nikiforov that his fans expect and that he thinks Yuuri will respond to. He acts all suave, smooth, and assured around Yuuri, winking at him and trying to seduce him (in response to how Yuuri seduced him at the banquet). But Yuuri keeps dodging and running away from those advances, uncomfortable with the persona that Victor is presenting. In episode 4, during the beach scene, Yuuri opens up to Victor about his own anxiety and then tells him that Victor doesn't need to keep a persona around him - that he wants Victor to be himself. It's after that conversation that we start seeing the dorky, heart-shaped smile more and more often. And throughout episodes 5-7, we start seeing them being more physically affectionate with one another. Victor often tries to cuddle Yuuri, throwing an arm over his shoulder, or rubbing his hands or face affectionately against Yuuri. It's adorable to watch their interactions. And while Yuuri is less likely to instigate the physical affections, he's still clearly open, accepting, and calm about it, unlike with the earlier episodes. This continues through episode 8. And in the reunion scene in episode 9, their facial expressions are animated so well to show how much they care for and missed one another; and Victor kisses Yuuri's ring finger. During the GPF episodes, their beds are shown pushed together in their hotel room. Even if you can't trust the big shows of affection due to the way they're presented, all these little nonverbal cues I think clearly demonstrate the shift in their dynamics and relationship. I can understand other people's doubts about their relationship and the way it's presented. But for me the relationship is unambiguous. Last edited by Crisha on Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber Posts: 3018 |
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A lot of of it depends on who is involved in the production committee and who ends up airing the show. For instance, From the New World was based on an award-winning (non-light) novel, and effort was made to ensure that the anime adaptation followed reasonably close to the source material, even if it made the show less marketable. The same was the case for the kiss scenes in Maria Watches Over Us, although that adaptation did choose to exclude or "tone down" some of its source materials' male-male ship teasing, as the creators discovered that a certain portion of that franchise's pre-existing fanbase were vocally opposed to the presence of boys in the story in the first place. In the case of YOI, there's no source material to wave in record company representatives' faces while screaming, "look, they have to kiss, it's part of the book!" |
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