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Cryten
Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 1026
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 Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:13 pm
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When the show just makes me want to watch the original for a better experience with these characters and world. You know its not working. They decided to adapt one of my best experiences in anime. I commend the artistry and actors, but I cannot recommend the product except to those who dislike the original or are animation phobic.
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The Not so Chosen One
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 433
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:23 pm
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| Puniyo wrote: | | Honestly? Divorced from the anime, as a standalone show, it's pretty decent, and way more fun than most of the stuff Netflix usually carts out. The issues come in when you start comparing it to the anime, but a lot of people don't understand (or wanna accept) that generally these live action adaptions aren't really made for anime fans, it's to get these stories to people who wouldn't otherwise give the anime a chance, hence a lot of the changes these adaptions tend to undergo. I know a lot of people who loved it, but they will still never watch the anime. |
Yeah, the problem with these live-action adaptations is that the anime fans will always be the first type of audience that will take a look at the show, that the show will try to appeal to first and that will make up the bulk of the word of mouth and the end of tehs show's run, so saying these live-action adapts aren't "made for anime fans" is more or less a fallacy; that population is always taken into account when adapting those shows, for better and worse.
The fact that you know people who liked the show is pretty meaningless, since word of mouth for this show is still negative by a big majority. You can even try to prove that the audience's reaction is "mixed" from sources like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb, but in every outlet that talked about this show, you're gonna find, again, that a big majority still found this show to be bad, because it fails both as a live-action adaptation, and its own thing in almost every instance possible.
Last edited by The Not so Chosen One on Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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garfield15
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1522
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:32 pm
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| Puniyo wrote: | |
The issues come in when you start comparing it to the anime, but a lot of people don't understand (or wanna accept) that generally these live action adaptions aren't really made for anime fans, it's to get these stories to people who wouldn't otherwise give the anime a chance, hence a lot of the changes these adaptions tend to undergo. |
This doesn't make sense at all because whenever these live actions come about, the first thing they always bring up is how 'true' to the anime they want to be and how the original fans will be pleased. Bebop was one of the biggest cases of this I've ever seen from getting Yoko Kanno on board to attempting to mimic everything about the look visually to the point that they tried to do a remake of the original opening. If they don't want to get the anime fans on board, they wouldn't do all this stuff.
At the same time, in my opinion, I feel like these adaptations forget that the anime fans are the ones you want to please first because they will be the biggest advertisement for your product be that positive or negative.
| Cryten wrote: | | When the show just makes me want to watch the original for a better experience with these characters and world. You know its not working. |
To be fair, I feel that way about the vast majority of western live-actions
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livin_large
Joined: 10 Nov 2021
Posts: 107
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:47 pm
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| Puniyo wrote: | | Honestly? Divorced from the anime, as a standalone show, it's pretty decent, and way more fun than most of the stuff Netflix usually carts out. |
I just hate quippy and snarky dialog and writing. I'm sick of it. I just want shows to be genuine. Cringy lines like "Welcome to the ouch mother****er!" coming out of characters mouths is a quick way to get me to shut it off and shudder. I don't watch a lot of American TV anymore but if this show really was a step above the crowd than that just sounds very unfortunate.
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ThrowMeOut
Joined: 10 Oct 2018
Posts: 260
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:46 pm
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It's just one of those bland middle-of-the-road shows that slides off you brain the second It's over. In a way that's worse than being bad. People are fascinated with stuff that's bad. I have watched tons of stuff I know is bad because it's still interesting. A show that's a solid, mostly competent 5/10? No thanks.
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One-Eye
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 2261
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:59 pm
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I never finished it. I got maybe 1/2 way maybe a little more thru. For me personally it did have some positives. I thought the actor playing Jet was pretty good, John Cho was ok he was just a little too old for the part. The music was mostly great. I think there was an audience for the show if they had never seen the anime.
On the other hand I stopped watching the show because of boredom and the sheer amount of cheesiness. The show did not have the coolness of the anime, the fight scenes weren't cool, the dialogue wasn't cool instead it was all cheese and for some people that's fine but I don't need the extra cholesterol. Some of the backgrounds looked like stage lots, urrgh. The dialogue in the first episode I remember being clunky, and Faye's character was just too obnoxious. Femme Fatale she was not. I mainly blame the writing and some of the direction not the actors, for the failure of the show. If the show had been good, no amount of whining by too hard to please anime fans would have killed it. Instead it was mediocre enough to validate the fan backlash.
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DRosencraft
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 666
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:07 pm
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I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, but what I think Puniyo is trying to get at is that there are two competing goals that have always dogged not just live-action remakes of anime, but the entire phenomenon of adapting anime for non-Japanese (or Asian more broadly) audiences. It's fine to say that the original was so popular, etc., but it remains true too that the scope of the audience it appealed to was small relative to a lot of other IPs outside the anime spectrum. They want to make something that won't piss off the anime community, but also that looks beyond that community to all those people who aren't/weren't interested in that anime.
Any remake's purpose is going to be to tap into that, and you aren't likely going to get there by just regurgitating a product that people can already consume, just with a bit of a different look because it's live-action instead of anime. It's not as though they're adapting series that would qualify as lost media that people can't just watch as their original anime. And unlike live-action, in most cases it's not as though the visual presentation of the originals of the series they've adapted have aged all that much - we're not talking 50+ yr old series here. Given the limitations live-action introduces, simply going for a straight remake is destined to fail as well. It may make anime fans happy, but only a small subset, with most not caring at all about their favorite series being live-action, and little the endeavor will do to grow the fanbase of the IP beyond those who likely would have already heard of the series in its animated form.
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zztop
Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 646
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:53 pm
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| One-Eye wrote: | |
Some of the backgrounds looked like stage lots, urrgh. |
This I agree on. I have no idea if the "stage-lot look" for backgrounds were due to budget constraints, or if it was intentional in an attempt by the producers to emulate a cheesy 1970s-1980s action movie.
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perroloco
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 307
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:18 am
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| Artemis X wrote: | | If it was so damn terrible can someone please explain to me why its one of the top shows on IMDB? I just don't get. Now before you come at me thinking im defending the series, know that I only watched a few episodes. I have not actually finished the series in Full. I did see the last Clip of ED and I guess people were expecting something Different? But other then that, tell me WHY is the series so popular. Personally of the 3 episodes I saw, I enjoyed it my self. Its nice once in a while to break the normal convetions hollywood production and do somethilng different that follows a style of a different art form like anime put into live action. We just have not tried that this much with TV drama's, we have experimented with films but there needs to be more Tv anime live action drama's. I would deffinitly welcome them but if people keep bashing it eveery time. Eventually production companies are going to get fed up with it and say enough, "we don't do any more". |
I am confused... In what category is Cowboy Bebop's live action at the top of IMDB? because I can't seem to find it.
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iamthevastuniverse
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:27 am
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The show wasn't terrible sure as hell wasn't outstanding it was decent at best life continues on I'm still bummed over Netflix canceling Marco Polo years later it is what it is.
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TexZero
Joined: 25 Oct 2017
Posts: 585
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:06 am
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| perroloco wrote: | | I am confused... In what category is Cowboy Bebop's live action at the top of IMDB? because I can't seem to find it. |
Probably top 10 worst anime adaptations right up there with 009-1 and The Guyver.
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Lann
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 270
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:53 am
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Ed shouldnt have even been in season 1. If they were serious, they would have needed Ed to stay a kid for as long as possible. By having her in season 1, by the time it gets to like season 3 she would be 18. Thats a no go. Too old at that point.
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The Not so Chosen One
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 433
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:23 am
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| DRosencraft wrote: | | I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, but what I think Puniyo is trying to get at is that there are two competing goals that have always dogged not just live-action remakes of anime, but the entire phenomenon of adapting anime for non-Japanese (or Asian more broadly) audiences. It's fine to say that the original was so popular, etc., but it remains true too that the scope of the audience it appealed to was small relative to a lot of other IPs outside the anime spectrum. They want to make something that won't piss off the anime community, but also that looks beyond that community to all those people who aren't/weren't interested in that anime.
Any remake's purpose is going to be to tap into that, and you aren't likely going to get there by just regurgitating a product that people can already consume, just with a bit of a different look because it's live-action instead of anime. It's not as though they're adapting series that would qualify as lost media that people can't just watch as their original anime. And unlike live-action, in most cases it's not as though the visual presentation of the originals of the series they've adapted have aged all that much - we're not talking 50+ yr old series here. Given the limitations live-action introduces, simply going for a straight remake is destined to fail as well. It may make anime fans happy, but only a small subset, with most not caring at all about their favorite series being live-action, and little the endeavor will do to grow the fanbase of the IP beyond those who likely would have already heard of the series in its animated form. |
Several problems with those appreciations: you could have it both ways if you stick to the source material, or at least to the themes of it, something which Netflix Bebop failed to do, while at the same time tried to with putting a bunch of visual cues taken from the anime and other types of fanservice. The original anime was just too rich with themes and cool-looking visuals for Netflix to pull off a faithful adaptation of that didn't look cheap-looking. There's a reason why a lot of people argue all the time about more "realistic" anime being better options for adaptations than genre stuff (like Black Lagoon, which is one of the most popular choices when people talk abuout this topic) with a Netflix budget. It's Netflix; they rarely try to do an adaptation of something that doesn't look like it was made with a basic cable network budget. For adaptations of something as weird as One Piece, for example, you have to go all the way on its weirdness, because when there's a live-action adapt of anything, anime fans will be drawn first to that product because they want to see how good the thing they love looks like in live action, which is the most simple explanation a lot of people (especially on this very site) fail to grasp when cosidering why fans ask for that kind of faithfulness, and that's why I think (and also hope) that the NF adapt of that manga/anime fails as well.
I also think it's disingenuous of producers to think that they want to do something different from the anime/manga they're adapting when the original product still exists and the resulting adapt still looks inferior given the (sometimes) limited scope of live action. You say "some people don't watch anime", but you're not following through with the promise of expanding the IP when the resulting adaptation turns out to be trash and the people who "don't watch anime" will be even less inclined to explore the source material. You're not getting people to like the adapt with the quality you're giving them, and you're still not getting the people who don't like anime in general to watch the source material.
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The Not so Chosen One
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 433
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:34 am
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| Lann wrote: | | Ed shouldnt have even been in season 1. If they were serious, they would have needed Ed to stay a kid for as long as possible. By having her in season 1, by the time it gets to like season 3 she would be 18. Thats a no go. Too old at that point. |
With the way Netflix has of doing shows by producing a show's season every 7 years, Ed would be having 18 years by the end of season 2.
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puraoreo
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:33 am
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It was shocking? He was "very warmed" by the fan response?
Does he live in the same universe as the rest of us?
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