Forum - View topicANN and the industry's stance on fansubs (ANN official on P5
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Iwatch2muchanime
 Posts: 1291 |
|
|||||||||
|
Ahh, Violenist Hamelin is very good IMO and the only way I got my first glimpse was a bootleg box set from with what seemed like 3rd generation VHS quality coming from it. It's hard to get, and all I can find are really bad quality fansubs and Bootlegs of it.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
firestarter
 Posts: 27 Location: 永久にdothackers |
|
|||||||||
|
I'm sorry if I'm about to mention this and i may get a little heat from this comment, but I feel like this post is similar to a previous post that was already place. I feel it to be redounded to revise the same exact topic under a different post name dealing with the same subject. The only out come that will come out of this is the same exact comments that were stated in the previous post dealing with fansub and I feel it not necessary for this repeated topic when one already exists.
 I know I'm going to get heat for this comment 
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
bluepita
 Posts: 465 |
|
|||||||||
|
I feel like I missed not just a memo, but a whole guidebook, on ANN's "position" on fansubs. I'm not sure why so many (not from this thread but others) think that ANN is so anti-sub. I've never seen an official policy other than don't promote dls, and I've always gotten the impression from discussions that most of ANN's staff watch at least some fansubs.
As for alienating the fan base, I watch fansubs, and I've never felt chided for that. Now granted, I watch about the same amount that I buy (that being not a ton of either because of finances). It just seems to me that if the fact that most of the ANN staff thinks you should also pay for anime makes you feel alienated, you might be a bit too sensitive. And face it, if a person is that sensiive, if that doesn't upset her, something else will. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
|
|||||||||
Ah yes, truer words have rarely been spoken. Some people just want to be offended by something, and if there is nothing to be offended at, they'll "find" something just so they can go off on a rant and try to make themselves feel important. Oh well, such is the case with anonymity and an audience... |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
|
|||||||||
|
But like I said already, and adding onto it, why shouldn't ANN and other associated organizations take a stronger stance against fansubs? If companies are going around handing cease and desist letters and ANN remains "neutral grounds" for anime fans, I think that's the same thing as saying either "we don't care" or "don't get us involved". Basically, anime communities can help companies by providing an environment where fansubs are shunned so that they're isolated and socially pressured to actually buy whatever they watch. Doesn't sound too unreasonable to me.
I think this is a good topic for discussion which some people are obviously turning it into a place for individual bashing. Like the thread starter said, it's not about the fansubs themselves, it's their relation to ANN's stance on them. Maybe some people can't read too well. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10430 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||||||||
|
Hi Guys,
I know a lot of you are waiting for me to chime in on this, but unfortunately I'm really busy today and tomorrow and possibly all weekend  (I wanted to go skiing today, but that's canceled because of work I need to do).
ANN's official policy, which I wrote up very quickly a few months ago, is already posted above. It hasn't changed. As for my own personal opinion on the matter, I'll post that later, either here, in my blog, or as an editorial. Please feel free to continue to discuss the issue, but do not get into the fansub ethics debate, if you want to do that, go here. Mods, please delete any posts from this thread that talk about fansub ethics and not the industry's stances or ANN's stance on the issue (BTW, the industry stance, and ANN's stance are not one and the same). If the discussion becomes too circular in nature, or people keep taking it off topic, please lock it. -t Last edited by Tempest on Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
CGord
 Posts: 163 Location: Phoenix, AZ suburbs |
|
|||||||||
Well said. Re. the Haruhi videos, I think they give a tacit approval to fansubbers who purchase R1's. They can't outright say "fansubs are OK', but they understand that their ready-made customer base for the SOS Brigade exists entirely due to us having already seen the show via fansubs. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Azathrael
Posts: 745 |
|
|||||||||
|
I clearly understand ANN's current position. But I think it'd be good to rethink about that position because 1) it's never been done in this forum since I joined it and 2) the situation is constantly changing so it'd be reasonable to talk about it every now and then.
I'm guessing that the staff would discuss something like this amongst themselves, reach an agreeable conclusion, and support it as representatives of ANN individually. But I'm also guessing that once this has been decided nobody has questioned it, at least not openly, and has faithfully kept an old rule as a habit and matter of convenience. Since I'm not really asking for clarification on ANN's stance, I'm going to stick to my original idea of changing ANN's stance to anti-fansub. I don't really expect ANN's stance to change, but this thread is actually worthwhile compared to all the other recent threads and I think an anti-fansub stance is a very plausible idea. /CGord - an example of one of the latest rules not being kept. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
|
|||||||||
|
It gets discussed here frequently enough and in most cases the staff are involved in that discussion so the current position is clear enough and has been made clear here as well.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
|
|||||||||
|
Actually, I don't think much of the current staff has talked about this at all behind closed doors. ANN's stance seems to be one that most of us have reached independently. Though, I guess even if one of us did disagree, they would probably follow the "official" position, but that seems to be unnecessary.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
TcDohl
 Posts: 82 |
|
|||||||||
I'm resurrecting this old thread because for the last few Answermans, Zac has convinced me that he has never said anything positive in recent history about fansubbing and those who watch fansubs. In fact, most if not all of the fansub questions has been met for contempt against those who watch fansubs and those who make them. Let me get some quotes from the previous two:
If Zac actually watched some fansubs, you would be able to see different policies made by the different fansub groups. There are some that totally ban karaoke subs and just subtitle the opening, ending, and insert songs. There are some that use very simple, standard karaoke subs, and of course there are some that are over-the-top that use spinning words and the like that pretty much defeat the purpose of karaoke subs. Yes, what Zac says is true to an extent, but glosses over everything else.
His crusade against fansubbing is really made apparent here. I mean, I often leer and am disgusted at fansub apologists for dissenting against fansubbers, but it's like he goes out of your way to diss fansubs, and those who watch them. I am both a fansub watcher and someone who buys anime and manga. If I were to take a picture of my manga collection, it would easily rival any of the Shelf Obsessed entrants. But it seems like my demographic is glossed over every time. Zac seems to be one of those who doesn't believe that fansubs lead to sales, but here I am, and many of my friends are, as well as many of those who attend the anime club which I run. Yes, it just may be that we are a small portion of the fansub watching public, but we exist. We are not fansub kids. I am not totally coherent at the moment and may give some additions to this. But in essence, I challenge Zac to say something good about fansubs and fansubbers. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Ramadahl
Posts: 325 Location: MK, UK |
|
|||||||||
Dude, hold up. Zac does watch fansubs.
He's just using a controversial topic to boost interest in a new feature on his column. Hardly a crusade.
Uh, many people are skeptical of this. There's no real evidence that this works on a whole, just reports of individual instances where it has. I'm sure you can see that fansubs could have the effect of reducing sales, which is also a valid point of view. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
|
|||||||||
Many (probably a majority) of fansubs use karaoke subs. Zac doesn't like them. He says that he doesn't like them and that hardcore fansub fans like them. Since many (probably most) fansubs have them and lack of karaoke subs is a frequent complaint amongst these 'hardcore fans' (both of DVDs and fansubs that don't do them), he is probably right. He never said that all fansubs had them, and I'm really not sure what "everything else" he "glossed over." He was discussing his annoyance with certain tendencies in regards to the subtitles in fansubs, nothing else. What THAT has to do with hating fansubs as a whole or always saying they are unequivacably bad, I'm not sure.
Fansubbing is a problem for the industry whether you want to admit it or not. How to minimize that problem is something the industry is trying to figure out. I'm really not seeing how this question proves some unabashed hatred of fansubs.
That's nice. I also watch fansubs AND buy the legit product (for the ones I like, at least) and pretty much anyone here or on AoD is going to be the same way. But we are in the minority. There are far more people who simply download the fansubs and never bother with the DVDs. Do fansubs help sales due to people like us (see fansubs, like it, and buy it as a result)? Yes, they can. But they can also lose sales to cheap bastards. There are numerous other factors to consider (word of mouth resulting in non-fansub viewers getting an interest, people that would never buy it even fansubs weren't available, the fact that DVD rips would still be available as soon as it comes out anyway, ect.) and there is simply no way to definitely say whether the cause more harm or good. But it is quite probable that they cause more harm than good. Zac's dislike and ranting against people who only watch fansubs and never buy a single DVD are hardly unwarranted, people like that are a serious problem and they probably make up a majority of fansub viewers. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
|
|||||||||
I don't mean this in a belittling way, but your posts seem to boil down to 'Pat me on the head and tell me I'm good.' In a quizzical way, why do you need anyones positive re-enforcement to watch a fan-sub? The tone of your writing seems to suggest that fan-subbing is a hobby unto itself, rather then a (potential) small part of Anime fandom. When I first began watching anime there was actual, physical VHS fan trade, then pre-P2P internet trade, early P2P, IRC, and eventually the various BitTorrents explosion. Somewhere along the way, especially among the younger generation of fans, as fansubs moved into BitTorrent and especially 'Youtube' territory, fansubbing moved from 'something you watched' to 'something that defines your fandom'. All that attitude has accomplished is to move something that was noticed but generally peripheral into a harsh, industry-exposed light. Self-inflicted exposure wounds, owning to the fact a segment of folks want to make a social sacrament out of getting free anime. Fansub's are a 'Grey area', and those are generally tolerated when they are quiet and low-key. When people start giant ruckuses about the legitimacy of the practice and their 'Right to Anime!', that's like getting out a bucket and brush and painting a giant neon bullseye on fansubs. If someone watches fansubs, don't download/watch domestically available or licensed material, and purchase R1 releases/products with the same enthusiasm you watch downloads. Simple as that. Fansubs still wouldn't be 'legitimate' in a true sense, but as long as R1 sales are strong they would be a tolerated 'Grey area'. Or people could just joyride for free like mad and loudly proselytize the behavior with pretentious statements like:
...getting us stagnating domestic sales, less licensed material, and increasing negative exposure of fansubs. Don't make a crusade out of legitimatizing fansubs, it's an ultimately pointless and self-defeating avenue. Proof is in the pudding as they say, forget all the hambone rationals and just support domestic (R1) merchandise. If sales are great no problem, fansubs stay a periphery nuisance with possible benefits to match the drawbacks in the mind of the industry; if domestic sales stay flat or worsen we know there's a lot of high-minded defensive rhetoric that really just masks 'Anime fast and free please'. Fansub's aren't a right, it's a practice that one gets away with because enforcement costs potentially out-way benefits at the current time. If domestic market sales grow, and the fansub-dom stays humble, quiet, and low-key it's a practice the industry may largely turn a blind eye towards. But as the DVD market stagnates somewhat, and (some) fansubbers and watchers become more vocal and self-righteous, you can be sure that it's a practice that will come ever more into the crosshairs of industry enforcement, largely on the back of self-inflicted fandom wounds. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
|
|||||||||
|
Ya know it's funny TcDohl you revive this and target Zac right after the new answerman with the new section...and what was the topic, fansubs. Instead of simply necro posting this old and dead thread perhaps you should take him up on his advice and email him your answer to this weeks question. Perhaps it's just a coincidence you revived this after the current answerman but I doubt it. I would suggest again you email him your stance instead of reviving a dead thread simply to flame him and go after him. That doesn't exactly show a lot of maturity or decency on your part.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group