Forum

Nice job Bandai! This was quite a surprise. Would have picked it up but just bought some DVD's from rightstuf the other day. Next paycheck comes and I'll, perhaps, pick it up!

Though I also really don't know what to say at the same time. One side this is great, just announced the license and its available the day of, plus Anime News Network is doing the stream thing. This is what anime companies should do (instant release+streaming) because waiting for a DVD after a license is announced can be long and horrid at times (personally for me the Eva movie). But at the other side I have to go along with the dub lovers and be disappointed at the lack of a dub. To put it simply, I look for a dub when it comes to anime DVD's. That's what I want in a product. I didn't buy Princess Resurrection from ADV because of no dub. I might just put this on the back burner, wait till the whole series package next year, or maybe just not buy it at all. Also, Media Blasters released Kite Liberator two days after the Japanese release with a dub included (most likely due to them putting some money towards the project). Wish Bandai did include one. But I can totally understand why they did it this way: Cheaper, make more money, and bring it out to the market faster. Bandai is a business after all and I give respect to them for how they are putting Kannagi out there like this.

I'm curious as to how well they did with the Ghost in the Shell: Innocence movie? Cause the only difference from the older release is the addition of a dub. It would be interesting to see the numbers.

Overall though this is a cool way to release anime, I give Bandai props for pulling this off like this.

jyuichi wrote:

How unfair of a US company to get a US streaming license to show an anime on a US site to the US rather than paying more to stream to countries X Y and Z where they DON'T sell DVDs?
Oh how could they?!
</sarcasm>

Yeah, how COULD they? Next thing you know, they'll be asking you to import the DVDs. Those BASTRADS!

The King of Harts wrote:

Note about that sale thing. The sale ended yesterday and Kannagi wasn't available until today so you couldn't use the sale to buy it. I tried several times yesterday and it just wasn't listed yet.

Still, this is sweet. I just ordered my set from TRSI, $26.00 each, free shipping, no tax, a free t-shirt, and minus my club discount of 10%. If that's not a fine deal on day one release for 7 episodes on DVD, I don't know what is.

On the number of episodes, I do hope the encoding is done properly. This show can be gorgeous at times, and my primary complaint with the fansubs was that none of them appeared to do it justice (though I haven't re-watched the DVD versions).

Anyone who likes slice of life anime comedies, with in fact a little more meat to the story and better writing/characters than usual, will like this. I'm very happy it's being released on R1 at all.

Second the desire to see Toradora!, too. That show probably does deserve a dub, as it was by far the best series of its season, but I don't know if that quality would translate to enough sales given its genre.

SongstressCela wrote:

Yes, I saw, but the MSRP is still a good $34.95, which is freaking ridiculous even for a dubbed DVD with extras, let alone this hogwash. I can get any other subbed only DVD for a good $12 or less, with MSRP being nowhere -near- $34.95 in the first place.

All this boils down to is Bandai having a huge enough pair to rip out a load of stuff from a DVD and still charge the same price for it. Despicable. Like I said, I gave in and ordered, because I love Kannagi and never finished it, but I sure don't feel good about it.

Not only because it's subbed only, but for supporting such a needlessly high price for a subbed only DVD, too. If sola and such didn't already have a price, I'd be a lot more worried about what this meant down the line.

Two words, honey : Episode Count.

Avg. dub disc 4 eps. 30$ MSRP 7.50$ an episode
Avg. sub disc 4 eps. 20$ MSRP 5$ an episode
Kannagi 7 eps. 34$ MSRP 5$ an episode

Kannagi is priced inline with other subbed discs, except that every retailer of it (all two of them) has it at 26.24 from the get-go before discount coupons or deals. Thats not a coincidence.
So the math is more like 3.75$ an episode if you don't put off buying it.

So, has it actually been confirmed that Kannagi won't be shipping to bricks-and-mortar stores at all, even if it's just to comic book stores and anime specialty retailers?

I mean, I could get a pre-paid credit card and order it online, but my preference is still shopping locally and supporting my local anime store.

Wait a second. So say that I wanted to get Kannagi from Anime Castle. I would be able to get it from their website (eventually) but I wouldn't be able to walk into the store and get it?

I'm thinking about purchasing it right now because while it's not a A++ title the art looks really amazing at some points and I'm a sucker for slice of life. I admit the fans for this series kind of made me want to stay far away from it but I think I might actually find it enjoyable.

zanarkand princess wrote:

Wait a second. So say that I wanted to get Kannagi from Anime Castle. I would be able to get it from their website (eventually) but I wouldn't be able to walk into the store and get it?

I'm thinking about purchasing it right now because while it's not a A++ title the art looks really amazing at some points and I'm a sucker for slice of life. I admit the fans for this series kind of made me want to stay far away from it but I think I might actually find it enjoyable.

I think some people are just here because of it being sub only personally. When I first watched this show I was detered by the goddess appearing on the doorstep of a random male, the childhood friend, and then the flirtatious rival, I'd seen it before and I really didn't care much for it so I went in, found it ok and finished the series with a 'meh'. Then now months later I was feeling like "wow, this is sweet!" and I was more open to Kannagi. Then after watching the 1st and 2nd episodes, I found myself finding it funnier and enjoying it way more than when I first watched it! Wierd, huh? Then I thought, you know, the show isn't half bad. Sure it has those aged cliches in it, but I feel Kannagi refreshes it's story with humor and it's just a fun show in general. Even watching almost the rest of the series I was still charmed by all of the cast's antics (and actually, the plot!) That I've gone out and got it. I say if you like the first two episodes, you should give it a try, I really never thought I would end up buying this show.

Last edited by reanimator on Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:19 am; edited 1 time in total

dormcat wrote:

reanimator wrote:

And you're assuming that I read your post which I never read in first place.

Then you were lying. I see. Enough said.

Okay, so I made a post on that thread. So what? People forget things. Can you remember every single post you posted on this site from your memory? Do you remember every single thread that you read? Of course not. Now you're getting all upset and making accusation that I'm lying. That's the problem with you. You are taking things way too seriously. Rolling Eyes

Uh... hello? Did I offended the entire nation of Taiwan? Did I called Taiwanese disc manufacturers crooks? No, I just made negative remark that graphic & packaging designs used disc products printed in Taiwan are way too identical to Japanese counterpart.

Being a cynic and an a$$hole I am, of course I can't help myself making the remark that Taiwanese disc makers are being copycats. Why go through trouble paying royalties on cover arts and designs, so that they could look exactly alike Japanese? Just because local fans wanted that way? If it doesn't look exactly like Japanese version, that makes the product inferior? Isn't it more rewarding to come up with graphic/product design that looks better than what Japanese can offer?

Since I assume that Japanese animation has far reach on Taiwanese mainstream than American counterpart and licensees are able to afford royalties to duplicate almost exact package designs, please don't tell me that Taiwan has no talent to come up with mind-blowing package design.

Let's say that Taiwanese didn't followed the suit of Japanese R2 collector's version and added subtitles only. There are other possible improvements I can think of:

1.DVD package with minimalist design that reflects the theme of the show without being heavy handed
2. Any gimmicky bonus physical product that makes collectors go nuts
3. If possible, any exclusive illustration from the manga artist or character designer makes it more attractive.

I hope this makes you feel better. I've noticed that a lot of American licensees are selling half-a$$ DVD packages using screenshots cover art as limited edition.

championferret wrote:

There's another reason why these type of fans (the ones who despite having the relevant money and interest in the show wont buy sub-only releases) irk me; I live in Australia, and here, we don't get the sub-only releases at all. This is because our anime industry is ruled by the often unbelievably idiotic Madman, who wont license anything that America released as sub-only. As a fan of nearly every niche show that the US gets sub-only, this irritates me to no end because I can't buy them. I'm actually someone who WANTS these dvds on my shelf, but I can't. And then someone who has perfect access to them will go on about how they don't want them because they have no dub...just be grateful for what you DO get, because I can't have the show at all. Until Madman picks up their act, anyway.

To be fair, Madman have done the odd sub-only release, and while they (like any other company) don't exactly advertise exactly how well every release has done, word is that sub-only releases haven't tended to sell that well here. This is even more of a problem with the more niche titles, since we've got fewer absolute numbers of buyers here than the US does, and a good chunk of the fans who would go for niche sub-only titles import them.

It's not actually impossible to acquire these titles here in Australia, it just requires a little more effort.

DmonHiro wrote:

jyuichi wrote:

How unfair of a US company to get a US streaming license to show an anime on a US site to the US rather than paying more to stream to countries X Y and Z where they DON'T sell DVDs?
Oh how could they?!

Yeah, how COULD they? Next thing you know, they'll be asking you to import the DVDs. Those BASTRADS!

Yeah! If they spent the time, money and effort to not totaly leave me (and others like myself) in the lurch. I bet you a whole load of people would stop picking up fansubs.

But no, alas, there be the nailed claws of [insert fansub group here] who will never tell me to get lost simply because my country doesn't celebrate Baseball, Moms and Apple Pie.

Streaming should have been the one thing that saved the UK anime industry from dissapering up it's own arse with a stuburn refusal to take the cost down to more reasonable prices/disk numbers (A lesson learnt by the american companies, towit what was said on AWO: "The single DVD market is dead") but no, instead it is a giant middle finger to non american anime fans and any time any company tries to not flip us off, some arsehole as to ruin it (THank you very much OP KIller, I'll be seeing you with my 2x4)

Here's an idea: Money is money regardless of where it comes from. What is so hard and wrong of Bandai, Toei, Gonzo, etc. to simply slap together a letter to thier local afliates (Beez, God knows but god bless them for having to deal with such a flusterCluck of a company such as Toei, MVM and Manga) and geting the ok?

But untill then, untill such a time as I am properly serviced by the companies and thier local afliates (Manga UK can only do so much but they're the only ones bothering to do anything whatsoever, see £20 "Funimation" sets and geting GL on the website) then I will feel no shame in downloading the latest episode of Ultimate mop daisuke KAI in full HD and with subtitles done by some goit in his bedroom.

But I'm sure that people will just see "RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE" here so here's another refrence to ANNina to sum up things:
b

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

championferret wrote:

There's another reason why these type of fans (the ones who despite having the relevant money and interest in the show wont buy sub-only releases) irk me; I live in Australia, and here, we don't get the sub-only releases at all. This is because our anime industry is ruled by the often unbelievably idiotic Madman, who wont license anything that America released as sub-only. As a fan of nearly every niche show that the US gets sub-only, this irritates me to no end because I can't buy them. I'm actually someone who WANTS these dvds on my shelf, but I can't. And then someone who has perfect access to them will go on about how they don't want them because they have no dub...just be grateful for what you DO get, because I can't have the show at all. Until Madman picks up their act, anyway.

To be fair, Madman have done the odd sub-only release, and while they (like any other company) don't exactly advertise exactly how well every release has done, word is that sub-only releases haven't tended to sell that well here. This is even more of a problem with the more niche titles, since we've got fewer absolute numbers of buyers here than the US does, and a good chunk of the fans who would go for niche sub-only titles import them.

It's not actually impossible to acquire these titles here in Australia, it just requires a little more effort.

Whoops, I forgot about the tiny amount there are. I know there's Loveless but I'm not sure what else. It's still annoying having to wait for things to get licensed TWICE though; not only does it have to be already licensed in america, but it also has to sell well in America, sigh. I think the only thing we got before the US was FMA:Brotherhood and alot of asian movies like Death Note.
At conventions I've seen import US DVDs like Clannad and Genshiken and such; but because I generally watch anime on my laptop, which can only play region 4 DVDs, those are pretty useless to me. I'd love to get a region-free DVD player at some point, though.
I do find it a little odd that sub-only releases 'dont tend to sell well' according to them. (How'd they get this data anyway if they haven't released that -many- though?) I thought most Australians didn't watch dubs, in my experience with anime fans here at any rate.
-sigh- I just want my Kashimashi and Clannad... Crying or Very sad

championferret wrote:

Whoops, I forgot about the tiny amount there are. I know there's Loveless but I'm not sure what else.

That I can think of off the top of my head, just Macross. I actually didn't know about Loveless (not my kind of show, so haven't paid attention).

championferret wrote:

I do find it a little odd that sub-only releases 'don't tend to sell well' according to them. (How'd they get this data anyway if they haven't released that -many- though?)

You don't necessarily need to do many to get useful data, especially if you've got a similar enough title with a bilingual release to compare sales figures too. And if your first test flops hard enough, it can greatly discourage you from doing a few more to see what happens. Still, I was mildly surprised to hear it too. I ended up concluding that the ratio of sub fans to dub fans among the paying audience was a bit closer to equal than I previously thought.

championferret wrote:

I thought most Australians didn't watch dubs, in my experience with anime fans here at any rate.

At conventions I've tended to see more people express a preference for subs, but at retail I tend to see a more even mix of preferences. Though of course, either way is just anecdotal evidence from those few who bothered to say anything about it.

championferret wrote:

At conventions I've seen import US DVDs like Clannad and Genshiken and such; but because I generally watch anime on my laptop, which can only play region 4 DVDs, those are pretty useless to me. I'd love to get a region-free DVD player at some point, though.

If it's a computer you're using, a quick Google search will help you find the software required to easily overcome those restrictions.
For a non-US company Madman have quite a bit of licensing power, but you'll still have to import a few things- remember your country allows you to import anything below the value of A$1000 tax free.

Conan-san wrote:

...my country doesn't celebrate Baseball, Moms and Apple Pie.

I believe you're mistaken about the last item in that list. Note we've been baking those by recipe since the 14th Century.

Zin5ki wrote:

Conan-san wrote:

...my country doesn't celebrate Baseball, Moms and Apple Pie.

I believe you're mistaken about the last item in that list. Note we've been baking those by recipe since the 14th Century.

Also Baseball was born in Sussex in the early 19th. Century in the form of "Rounders". Have you both forgotten Mothering Sunday? For shame. Wink

DmonHiro wrote:

jyuichi wrote:

How unfair of a US company to get a US streaming license to show an anime on a US site to the US rather than paying more to stream to countries X Y and Z where they DON'T sell DVDs?
Oh how could they?!
</sarcasm>

Yeah, how COULD they? Next thing you know, they'll be asking you to import the DVDs. Those BASTRADS!

No, they just said it's alright to download the fansubs for those countries and that they are happy for them to do so. [/sarcasm]

Last edited by dormcat on Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total

reanimator wrote:

Why go through trouble paying royalties on cover arts and designs, so that they could look exactly alike Japanese? Just because local fans wanted that way?

Offering what your customers want is the first and the most important rule of doing business.

reanimator wrote:

If it doesn't look exactly like Japanese version, that makes the product inferior?

I don't, but I know many people do think that way.

reanimator wrote:

Isn't it more rewarding to come up with graphic/product design that looks better than what Japanese can offer?

It looks like you have very little idea of how the industry works: all finalized designs have to be approved by the Japanese license holder. For the past four years (of establishing personal contacts of local licensees) I have yet seen anything that could be superior; "on par with" is the best thing they could offer.

reanimator wrote:

please don't tell me that Taiwan has no talent to come up with mind-blowing package design.

Like I said, 1) the source material (textless, high resolution artwork) is controlled by Japanese license holders 2) the finalized design has to go through them. In the case of Aria the Animation, the Japanese license holder refused to release the artbox illustrated by Kozue Amano, so Muse's artbox (as well as TRSI's artbox) only has the anime key visual.

reanimator wrote:

Let's say that Taiwanese didn't followed the suit of Japanese R2 collector's version and added subtitles only. There are other possible improvements I can think of:

1.DVD package with minimalist design that reflects the theme of the show without being heavy handed

That's how most niched titles are treated.

reanimator wrote:

2. Any gimmicky bonus physical product that makes collectors go nuts

Proware offers brass Haruhi key chains that only comes with the artbox and not sold separately, but the artbox design is still the same.

reanimator wrote:

3. If possible, any exclusive illustration from the manga artist or character designer makes it more attractive.

Not possible. Most Japanese companies hate reverse importation. This "Taiwan exclusive" only happens when the author is visiting Taiwan as a guest of honor for a convention and is usually in the form of an autograph, not a customized illustration.

EDIT: Muse's link fixed