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Answerman - Jerkwatch

818941 wrote:

As for Cross Ange... I think I lost the post you are referring to Mind quoting, please?

Here you go:

But I don't think discussing media is invalid because we can't affect the market. Understanding problematic elements of media you consume and enjoy is an important part of becoming aware of social issues. I'd rather someone watch Cross Ange and think "Yeah, it's fanservicey, but I still like it!" rather than someone say "What? It's not fanservicey at all. Don't be stupid." At least the first viewer is more aware of the media they're consuming.

addiemon wrote:

Is there a way for consumers to enjoy this kind of fantasy in a socially responsible manner?

Yes. Quietly and privately in the comfort and confines of one's own home, and not boasting about it to all and sundry in any social media outlet. Job's a good'un.

ANN doesn't cover hentai anime because ANN is boring and I think Zac said there's really just not much to say when something's main purpose is just for getting off.

And if I was a rapist, I bet I REALLY wouldn't be taking the time to think about how rape fantasies might really be about sexual self-confidence. I'd just be thinking about my own pleasure.

Everything in a story has a place. If a scene doesn't do anything to further the plot and/or character development, then in my mind, it's just a waste of screen time and should be cut.

I think my post got lost in the rapid discussion going on here, but 9 times out of 10 reported rape cases, the rapist's thoughts are either about domination over someone (power rape) or venting frustration at a nearby target (anger rape). In both types, a woman is chosen and sex is forced upon her not for pleasurable reasons, but to relieve oneself of negative emotions, the woman simply being a perceived nearby easy target. (Well, I suppose that can be a type of pleasure, though my point is that neither power rape nor anger rape is done for primarily sexual reasons.)

Everything in a story has a place. If a scene doesn't do anything to further the plot and/or character development, then in my mind, it's just a waste of screen time and should be cut.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

dtm42 more or less said what I meant, but not exactly. With NC sex, *both parties* are, on some level, willing participants. Even the "victim" is mainly *playing* at being the victim while secretly enjoying the experience. In "real" rape, that is *not* the case: there is no fantasy being enjoyed by the victim, only a nightmare. There are lots of NC sex stories/fantasies out there, but I doubt anyone wants to experience actually being raped. Unfortunately, it is very easy to conflate these two things, especially by people who do not have that particular quirk.

Oh, I thought you were referring to sex where one or more people involved in the act are under-age.

In a lot of porn though what seems anger at first gets quickly turned into lust as it is made a pleasurable experience for the target too.

This is bullshit, though. Real people don't work that way. It's, like.... you know how gun experts look at some films and say, "you can't do that with guns you'll kill people you don't want to".

and besides! it's your fantasy, you can fantasise whatever you damn well like. Including about women who like you and want to spend time with you, who don't need to be raped before they're open to the pleasures of your cock 'cause, you know, they want to have sex with you. You can have that fantasy. It's a better, happier fantasy than the rapey ones. Go'n read Love Hina. 's pretty good.]

whiskeyii wrote:

Everything in a story has a place. If a scene doesn't do anything to further the plot and/or character development, then in my mind, it's just a waste of screen time and should be cut.

What's character development and what constitutes the plot is pretty subjective though. You could say the suffering Ange goes through right now is character development as it serves her understanding how wrong her initial position was toward the Norma and their treatment, since she's put in the same hell that they are forced in by being treated as inhumans in the first place. I hope that's the direction they'll take at least.

Or that Shinkawa's attempted assault was part of the plot as both climax to his arc and character development for Shinon finally getting rid of the bad in her situation, with a friend's help. People shouldn't underestimate these details, tension-building is part of what makes the execution and the execution is part of what makes a story good and engaging. That's my 2 cents at least, feel free to disagree. ^^

addiemon wrote:

Is there a way for consumers to enjoy this kind of fantasy in a socially responsible manner?

Yes. Quietly and privately in the comfort and confines of one's own home, and not boasting about it to all and sundry in any social media outlet. Job's a good'un.

Anime is a medium, just like books, film, or television. Hentai=pervert literally, however it can also mean porn and is one of the various genre of that medium, books like manga, doujinshi which is also manga, (but not all doujin are porn), and light novels, film, and television. Anime hentai, at least the hardcore product, never get shown by a broadcaster, but by home video dvd, or Blueray. What might get broadcast at late night times would be considered soft core hentai , or rather ecchi.

This is one of the problems I have with the anime industry. Both the terms "Anime" and "Hentai" are way too loosely defined,

... allowing people who don't look deeply enough into the anime industry to easily get them mixed up.

... When people these days hear the word "Anime" they either think, "Oh, It's those cartoons people watch," or, "It's those shows with a lot of boobs and child pornography for pedophiles."

I think you're mixing up two of my posts. My issue with Cross Ange is that it feels like the creators are playing up Ange's suffering for fanservice (via camera angles).

My issues with Valvrave and SAO II (and partially Cross Ange) are that the assaults in all three cases have very little impact on the heroines they are inflicted on (making them somewhat pointless) or on the story themselves. Cross Ange's probably can't be removed without messing with the story, but it could use camera angles more grounded in showing the horror of the act.

But SAO II's and Valvrave's? They seem to have very little impact on the show, and excising them altogether changes very little in the story (i.e., Sinon is still threatened and saved, and, uh, I guess there's some resolution in how the characters in Valvrave feel towards each other. Kind of. That one seems messier, like it happened towards the end and the creators went, "Well now what?" It seems like the end result was some kind of romantic resolution though. And there are half a dozen other ways to pull that off).

Rewatching SAO I think the impact was supposed to be on Shinkawa rather than Shinon, he was shown to be obsessive about her so it would have made all his creep scenes pointless if he had just moved on like a normal person after being defeated right in front of her. Kirito was still the hero of the day but Shinon had her heroic moment too, she's the one who saved both Kirito and herself in the end. That's how I see it at least.

I might be, I recall another post about Cross Ange but that got lost in the thread. When they showed Ange's eyes after the surgery that was definitely shock value rather than fanservice. The whole scene had also pretty bleak colors. Same for episode 2, rewatching they put emphasis on when Ange slaps Zora away, and again shock value at Zora's fake eye and more exposition about Norma which serves Ange start to overcome her self-denial at the end of episode 3. The rest - the actual fanservice bits - is there to thrill the audience, who expects the heroine to find her strength and pull herself back up anyway.

In a lot of porn though what seems anger at first gets quickly turned into lust as it is made a pleasurable experience for the target too.

It is not "people." It is just some people. Apparently it is some people that you know, or who at least can influence what you do.
Unfortunately, you will probably just have to do whatever you can to educate them, or just tolerate them if possible.