Forum - View topicMost Improved Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Keichitsu0305
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It's really called the Great Departure (even says so in the info link) which makes way more sense; this film covers Siddharatha leaving his kingdom to pursue spiritual enlightenment...not being a world-renowned gumshoe. Group D-1 Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Want to watch both Buddha (read the manga & I'm well-aware of the history) and Noein (even with the spoilers). I might actually change my vote because apparently there are spoiler[three Yuu's] but I find it interesting how spoiler[the two Yuu's accept each other despite being so radically different.] Not sure if that's fair though since I'm voting mainly because of the interesting usage of spoiler[alternative personalities] moreso than anything else. Group D-2 Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Definitely might change this is if someone who has seen Dusk Maiden can come up with a good argument. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso Seen both (Batman as a Pig Pilot!) but even if I hadn't, Porco simply is more intriguing than Renji. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster I expect Vegeta to win latter on because it's DragonBall but Noriko really impressed me by the end of the series. Group D-5 Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Seen Perfect Blue and currently watching 12 Kingdoms. I found it disturbing watching Miwa slowly lose her sanity but the ending actually harmed her development spoiler[(who simply similes and walks away after nearly getting killed by their own manager?)] Suzu gaining self-assurance is presented as more believable and at a good pace. Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo Haven't seen Momo but I also don't believe Mytho improved that much; actually, Ahiru improves more than him! True, he accepts Rue in the end after all that she put him though, but he just gets back the shards he originally sent away. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 I've seen Utena, never watched Gundam 00 but I know Nanami doesn't improve that much near the end. Actually, I'm surprised she's even part of the nominations. So...vote against Nanami. Group D-8 Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish Seen both, own both, and I love both. Naota, himself, doesn't really 'grow up'; he's more like a symbol of "the teenager" who thinks the world should his/her way and, if it doesn't, then the world is either wrong or (as he states both in the beginning & at the end of the series) boring. I like FLCL more as a giant symbol than as anything with actual development. Tsukimi, despite the show being cut off early, manages to use her Jellyfish knowledge as a strength rather than continue thinking she has no positive qualities. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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Just wanted to put out an arguement against Yuuko.
It's less that she improves as a character, but more that her situation improves. She was always bright and cheerful and all that stuff at the start and she was actively seeking the truth behind her death. It's just that spoiler[when she starts to remember she automatically shoves everything onto Dark Yuuko.] But this only happens occasionally. The rare storm cloud on an otherwise sunny day. Even though she eventually gets rid of that cloud for good, which is certainly an improvement, that just means she doesn't have to worry about that occasional cloud. At the end of the series she acts exactly how she did at the beginning of the series. There's no "Point A to Point B." Just "Point A but now won't go to Point C." |
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victor viper
 Posts: 630 Location: The deep south |
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Group D-1
Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Detective vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Yuu Gotou. Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Rei Ayanami. If this was the Rei of the TV series, I wouldn't vote for her. However, the Rei of the Rebuid movies does show quite a bit of character growth. It's subtle to be sure, but it's clear that she's no longer just a soulless vessel and that's good enough for me. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Porco Rosso. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Noriko Takaya. After all, she was the archetype for a whole succession of similar characters. Her growth during the show seems authentic. Sure, the awkward, kluzty girl with latent genius doing her best has become almost cliche, but that is what Noriko is. If anything, her actions at the end of the show seal the deal. At least in my opinion, her final actions in the show are akin to facing death. After all, spoiler[ she risks her life for the sake of the mission and the greater good. Further, it's very clear to her and the viewer that even if she's successful, the earth she returns to will be drastically changed (we're aware of the effect that time dilation will have if she's able to escape the black hole's event horizon). Everyone she's ever known will be long gone, and in the end she may be an alien relic on her own world.] Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms I'll go with Suzu simply because I don't think Mima's character really improves significantly. If anything, it might change a bit for the worse. Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu Although I'm sympathetic to the arguments against him, I'll vote for Mytho. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena I guess by default it's Saji Crossroad. I have to agree with Key's assessment of Nanami here. Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish I vote for Naota. Adolescence isn't easy. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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To anyone thinking that Vegeta is going to automatically win and so they can give pity votes to Noriko (looking at you, Keichitsu0305), please note that Noriko is currently leading ten votes to four.
I will watch Gunbuster over the weekend to see for myself how much Noriko improves (plus I needed to get round to watching it anyway). But she'll have to blow me away in order to have a chance against Vegeta, who goes through the best and most complete character arc in the history of Shounen villainy. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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What about Piccolo? He did it first. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Piccolo did it first, but Vegeta did it better. Vegeta had more obstacles to overcome (many of them mental obstacles), and his personality made it harder for him to do so. However, when he did overcome them it was far more satisfying. He had to overcome his past, the genocide of his race, the virtual enslavement by Frieza for years, his own enormous pride which he eventually learned to let go. Although Piccolo and Vegeta both had rivalries with Goku, Vegeta's rivalry is the defining one of the entire Dragonball franchise.
Vegeta gained more than Piccolo did too, like a family and - especially - a son whom he had to learn to love and appreciate (twice over at that). When you look at Piccolo's big scenes and Vegeta's big scenes (and I'm talking about development scenes, not fight scenes), you see that Vegeta's ones are far more emotionally powerful. Just look at the videos I posted before. Anyway, Vegeta isn't up against Piccolo, he's facing Noriko. I will know who is better by Monday. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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I know people don't like to admit that this exists but this is too good not to factor in.
Anyways, I only bring up Piccolo because his turn from Shonen villainy is pretty big too. But it's like he says in DBZ Kai Abridged: "Nobody watched Dragonball!" |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18247 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Given your general respect (love?) for mecha series and how influential this one has proved to be, I'm very surprised that you haven't seen it already. As long as you don't try to apply a shred of logic to it, I think you'll enjoy it. Whether or not you'll agree after seeing it that Noriko's a stronger choice than Vegeta is another story, but you should at least appreciate why Noriko is getting the kudos that she is. EDIT: Oh, that's a great clip, Vaisaga, even though it's not relevant at all. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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Well, it shows how Vegeta can be a total softy when it comes to his daughter. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9122 Location: Bedford, NH |
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isn't Bulla also 13?
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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@Key:
I had avoided Gunbuster because I heard it was just GAINAX boob-bouncing and mindless Super Robot action. I guess I'll find out how much of that is reality and how much is fiction when I actually watch it on Sunday. And there's plenty of Mecha I hate. I watch Mecha because I like the idea of giant robots scrapping it out in battle but it's actually one of the more poorly-written genres in Anime. For example, out of the seventeen or so Gundam series, OVAs and movies that I've seen, I only thought three of them - War in the Pocket, X and SEED - were good. Four if you include Unicorn which is still on-going. That's a pretty poor return rate, and is symptomatic of the entire genre. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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Well from how I've seen you rate shows before, your definition of "good" is a lot more stringent than an average person's.
Anyways, if it counts for anything, Gunbuster is the only title I've rated as a Masterpiece. I still consider it the greatest anime I've ever seen. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
From what I've seen of your Anime list, it unfortunately doesn't count for anything. I'm not being belligerent, I'm just saying that we have wildly different tastes. If you say you liked Gunbuster, I have to take that with a lump of salt until I actually get around to watching it. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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That's fine. I'm aware that I like a lot of shows others consider 'crap'.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18247 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The boob-bouncing thing comes from the fact that Gunbuster was the first anime to take pains to animate it, but that and the nudity in general really just amounts to three or four brief scenes out of six episodes. (And the way Gainax does it here is far more realistic-looking than in most of the fan service-focused anime that followed.) Although its action is ultimately taken to ridiculous extremes, it is far from mindless, too. IIRC, this was Hideaki Anno's first directorial effort, and it definitely shows signs of the kind of pathos and complexity in character development that later becomes predominant in NGE. |
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Seriously? That's a subtitle for a movie about Buddha? I have never watched the movie nor have I read the manga, but I read Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse few years ago and I don't remember him being a great detective.
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