Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon Crystal: Season III
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PumpkinMouse
 Posts: 82 |
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@CrowLia: Basically this. ^ I'm just personally uncomfortable imagining Hotaru thinking "I want to kiss this little girl" or Chibi-Usa thinking "I want to kiss this older girl" when she looks like she's 10. (I think she's 12?) Chibi-Usa thinking something like "I want to be with someone like this when I grow up" is a more palatable thought to me. It's more nebulous and less inherently....I dunno, mildly sexual? Maybe it makes me a bit prudish, but I prefer the thought of their current relationship blooming into more once they both actually look like teenagers. ^^; I think also maybe if the show in general were less mildly sexually charged, I'd be okay with it. I certainly don't balk at the idea of Sakura and Syaoran having romantic feelings for each other in Cardcaptor Sakura, but the romance in that series is a lot fluffier. In Crystal, it doesn't happen often, but we've had forced kisses, Usagi put into a dress while unconscious, and a make-out scene on the kitchen floor, plus a heavy focus on teenagers. The idea of children falling in love seems a little less sweet and charming in Sailor Moon Crystal than it does in Cardcaptor Sakura. |
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whiskeyii
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Yeah, guess I should clear up a few things, too. I'm with Fallenmessiahx; though the age gap might be small, the hormonal difference between a pre- and post-pubescent person are MILES apart, and generally pre-pubescent kids get treated as sexual angels in media while post-pubescent folks get handled as starting to dip a toe into the world of adults (read: a sexual life). Crossing those streams, so to speak, just makes me a little leery; I prefer my couples to be on a more equal standing in terms of life experience.
As for Usagi and Mamoru, I basically just subconsciously age Usagi up and Mamoru down, because there's really no way in hell she acts like a normal 14-year-old, and it takes away the squick factor of a minor getting busy with an adult. But yeah, like Fallenmessiahx said, they're just pictures, so like PumpkinMouse, it's just purely for my own sense of comfort. I'd certainly never hold it against someone who shipped either couple as they are, it's just not my thing. EDIT: Glancing at a few different wiki entries, Chibi-Usa's age runs the gamut between seven and ten for the manga. So a little younger than what most of us pegged her as (personally, I would've just been lazy and gone with 900-years-old = 9-years-old mentally.) |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5507 Location: Mexico |
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I definitely understand and agree with both of your points whiskeyii and PumpkinMouse. I was just contesting the "both consenting adults" part. I certainly get how squicky fandom can get about sexualizing characters and their relationships. But in terms of the story, I wouldn't mind if they developed Chibiusa and Hotaru's relationship to be platonic that evolved into romance once Chibiusa is a little older. I know it won't happen -if they didn't develop HarukaxMichiru why would they do it with other characters- but eh, it would've been nice
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SailorNaruto
 Posts: 195 Location: Illinois, USA |
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I don't know. SuperS has always been a sore spot with me. I guess I just find it boring compared to the rest. It especially lacks when you look at the fact that a great season (Infinity) precedes it, and another great season (Stars) follows is. But yeah, maybe I am being to hard on it. I'll also say that I'm extremely excited the see the Crystal version. |
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manapear
Posts: 1526 |
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And normally, I would agree. But ChibiUsa is 900+ and her maturation is actually catching up to her body now. And I don't even remember what age either of them is supposed to be in Stars. But putting aside shipping them as children, I do appreciate that Crystal went out of its way to establish what will be their relationship and that it didn't get downplayed, because they're also pretty important as a (future) ship. Shame you feel HaruMichi were downplayed though. I thought the 90s was cute, but aside from some cheeky lines, the hand thing and that funny date episode, it didn't do anything for me. I love their more everyday moments in the manga and really seeing them work as a family unit and those kind of things. I don't really like the moe looking art style of S, so I've been lagging on catching up, but it will be interesting to see for myself how it handles them. I appreciate they got their own ending though. But I also kind of am bitter against Crystal for making Haruka even more seemingly masculine than need be, including in the ending, and going with such a distinctly male voice. They do better by her later it looks going by people I follow, but they could have toned it down a bit. |
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Sailor Sedna
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@SailorNaruto
True, SuperS is the most boring when you compare it to the other seasons @manapear I hope that season 4, if we get it, will show more of the family life there (but it still felt more like the three of them raising a family, and I still didn't feel the whole Haruka/Michiru relationship there). I didn't think S's art style looked all "moe" (what does that even mean?) though... |
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manapear
Posts: 1526 |
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I think their relationship is that of the normal family dynamic in the manga, and I like it, because it normalizes them as a lesbian couple instead of trying to paint as something more different than necessary. (Like how some people make lesbian relationships unrealistic because it's ~idealized~ when they're really lightweight fetishizing them.)
I'm sure we'll get SuperS. The musical is continuing, and so far there is a pattern of us getting more Myu and then more Crystal. I'm holding out for a PGSM reboot though too! As for the moe bit. . . it's hard for me to explain. I just dislike how it's less classic shojo looking. less angles and wispy stuff, more cute blob-ish looking stuff. The linework alone is on the border, but it kind of lacks that shojo quality in the color and stuff and feels more. . . eh, generic. It also looks more plain and. . . I guess generic for me. Especially when S1/2 had that shojo aspect that is so rare anymore in anime. it was refreshing, and we lost it for art that looks like everything else. (Kind of translated to parts of the animation too where it feels clunky and movement is unnatural.) |
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Sailor Sedna
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I never thought S's artwork looked generic, it still had that shoujo feeling to me...
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manapear
Posts: 1526 |
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It kind of has some of that look, but when you compare it to the way even the Ribon miniseries are animated versus how S came out. . . meh. They could have tried harder. It works enough to barely look/feel shojo, and look generic/moe enough to grab other audiences.
I will say, the backgrounds remained gorgeous though. All of Crystal is excellent for beautiful cityscape shots. ♥q♥ |
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Sailor Sedna
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I never saw the Ribbon miniseries, whatever that is.
The only things I liked from Crystal 1-2 was some of the backgrounds. |
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manapear
Posts: 1526 |
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I meant Ribon the magazine. It has miniseries of its anime.
I liked all of its Crystal. The animation had its flubs, but no different than 90s in that regard, or any show going on now. Even the shows I would normally hail as looking great have their problems. And it's Toei. Having grown up with Toei and still being a PreCure fan, I was not surprised in the least, lol. I just miss having such a distinctly shojo style, and think it's a shame that we lost it. But, I guess this is decent for giving fans of this look something, but it's everywhere anyway so I don't see the point. |
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Almighty Cod
 Posts: 12 |
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Sorry for being a bit late to the party. But after a recommendation to give this anime another shot, I've just finished watching the entire season in one go.
And I'm sorry to say I'm still unimpressed despite the improvements. I'm also relieved to find I'm not alone in my dissatisfaction. In terms of positives I like the new art-style, and I'm glad of the inclusion of actual humour. But its still not enough. This one chapter to episode format is hurting the show more then benefiting it. There's so much potential going to waste for the sake of being faithful. Now I admit to not caring much for the manga's storyline or characterisation, and find it very much overrated. I have nothing against Naoko, but her writing leaves much to be desired. But regardless, I have tried hard to like Crystal on its own merits. But it still isn't doing much for me. Which is shame given how the new musicals have done a better job of capturing the spirit of the franchise. The primary thing that's making it really difficult for me to enjoy the show is how the Inner Senshi are constantly getting treated like dirt. Outside of some Daimon grunts, they're either being outclassed or curb-stomped. And If they're not being used as helpless punching bags, they're being made to look like weak willed damsels instead. It's a huge turn-off considering that they are my favourite characters. Even their friendship with Usagi is callously butchered for the sake of making the Outers look cool. I don't care if it was like that originally, they should have been allowed to break those frankly 'shallow' illusions on their own. It's a completely degrading moment that should rightfully have been changed. Of-course come Stars, all the other Senshi will end up getting shafted...badly... I also don't get the praise for the big battle between the two groups. It felt so 'contrived', in that they needed to have one for the sake of it. Setsuna in particular is a previously established friend, yet sides with two people she's barely just met. Plus it annoyed me how pathetically easily they got taken over. Couldn't they have put up more of a resistance? Likewise, would it kill them to give the antagonists a smidgen of personality beyond "Har-har, I'm evil!"? It's become very monotonous. This level of depth is something I'd expect from a 70's cartoon. And last but not least, can someone please explain what exactly is the point of Michiru? She's even more of a non-entity then poor Rei was in the first two arcs. Why show all that stuff between her and Haruka and then dump it for that horrible (don't try and defend it) kiss scene? I will say, it did start of very strongly. But after a few episodes the quality just went steadily downhill from there on. It's not like have ludicrously high standards or anything. I'd be fine with something on the level of say, Digimon Tri. Which at least cares about it's characters enough for me to do the same. |
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Sailor Sedna
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@Almighty Cod
Don't worry, better late than never 
To be honest though, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head/explained perfectly why I believe the 90's anime is far better than in the manga. I agree, the manga, while good, is extremely overrated, and sadly it hasn't aged too well. I do love the art style, animation and humor too for this season, but yeah, the story is very flawed to the point where at times its flaws far outweigh its good points. I like Season III, but it pales greatly when compared to Sailor Moon S, the original anime version. The Inner Senshi sadly do, yes, seem to be weak a lot of the times here, though not as bad as Seasons 1 and 2 of Crystal, they weren't that weak in the original anime at all, they were useful there despite being overpowered at times. Their friendship was far more believable and genuine in the original too, even with Usagi and Rei fighting, it's like Rei just gets along perfectly here. Also, the Inners don't even develop that much compared to the original anime. Same thing with the villains, done better in the original anime mostly too. The whole Inners/Outers conflict didn't feel contrived in the original anime version S, the whole Infinity arc was done far better in there than in the manga/Crystal Season 3. And is it just me, or do Usagi and Mamoru in the manga/Crystal seem too perfect? It's like Usagi loses her flaws and acts practically perfect, her maturing doesn't feel realistic, and Mamoru, when he's not acting like a creep in Crystal, never says anything terrible about her and such...Usagi only caring about Mamoru Yeah, Michiru/Sailor Neptune is pretty much just...there...I could run this arc without her mostly as the only thing that is important about her is that she is the Sailor with the Mirror Talisman. She is far better in the original 90's anime, she has a character! And yeah, Rei was so bland in Crystal season 1/2 and had no personality, wasn't better off here. Yup, I don't care what anyone says about it, even if Uranus is supposedly "showing affection for Usagi", that kiss is sexual harassment/assault, which you can go to jail for! And yeah, the idea of doing one chapter to episode format, which was my biggest fear of Crystal, isn't really working, as it still brings out the flaws of the manga (and don't expect to see Mercury and Jupiter past the first two episodes of Stars if we get to that season)...also, the finale was a disappointment to this season too, it felt anti-climactic and rushed, and adding the Dead Moon stuff just felt a bit tacked on and forced, even if they added Helios, it wouldn't have even felt like a proper ending. Last edited by Sailor Sedna on Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Almighty Cod
Posts: 12 |
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I honestly have no desire to get involved in a tedious 'Original' versus 'Reboot' debate. I've frankly had it up to here with the likes of these 'True Fans', 'Purists', and their incessant bleating and arguing.
The 90's anime was fine for the time and circumstances under which it was made. Given that it ran simultaneously and didn't have the luxury of knowing where the storyline was going, or how long it would run for. It's fondly remembered by an entire generation (in its home country alone). Like it or not, it's impact and legacy have now been firmly cemented in history. It has nothing to prove anymore to anyone. This however, is struggling miserably in comparison to many of its modern day contemporaries. Of course, given that they are working with dated source material doesn't help much. I realise I'm treading on thin ice here. But the harsh reality as I see it. Is that if this didn't have a well established franchise to ride on, it would have long since sunk into obscurity with quality of this calibre. Nostalgia is ironically the thing that's keeping it going. Because I seriously am doubting that twenty years from now many people are going to remember this. Heck, It's not hard to notice a significant drop in interest since it started. It is my slim hope that once they've finished half-arsedly going though the motions, Toei has something more ambitious and better crafted waiting in the wings. Naoko's plots are perfectly serviceable when used as guidelines, just not something that should be rigidly adhered too. Particularly in the case of Stars. Which as far as I am concerned is in dire need of a drastic rewrite anyway. Because in it's current state it's a mess. It certainly is not the finale the series deserves, or a proper send-off for the characters. And I fear Crystal is going to jack that arc's shortcomings up considerably. It's not that I have any problem with Usagi being the main lead. But a competent enough writer is more then capable of utilizing the secondary characters and giving them respectable roles. Crystal could have done this very easily, and without even having to drastically alter the plot. For example, there is no good reason why they couldn't have shown the Inner Senshi holding their own more. Or having them voice their own individual opinions, instead of turning them into a collective of obedient drones. It's just lazy writing. I've never had that much interest in her relationship with Mamoru anyway. As far as I'm concerned, the bond between the five main girls takes precedence above all else. Crystal needs to take into account that many of the supporting cast have become just as popular and well loved as she has. And that their entire existence doesn't have to revolve around her. I have a cousin who adores and identifies with Makoto, but feels her more meekish portrayal in Crystal is backwards in terms of development. I hold similar opinions regarding Rei. I have no qualms in saying that I find the so called superior stoic depiction immensely dull and forgettable, and will happily take the spirited and ambitious shrine maiden any day of the week. As for the whole 'perfect' thing that has been brought up. There's a very simple, and cringy explanation for that. Usagi was essentially Naoko's wish fulfilment/self insert character. Likewise, Mamoru was her bland ideal sex toy. Which says plenty for me. It's also another reason why I unapologetically don't favour the manga much. It's no wonder she's retrospectively embarrassed by a lot of it. I certainly would be. |
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Sailor Sedna
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Sorry, I wasn't trying to get you involved in a debate like that, and I highly apologize if that's the case. I do agree though, that I'm getting tired of the whole "true fans" thingy that people are saying, it's annoying, and I've had to deal with stuff like that a whole lot. I usually try not to argue, but I've really gotten pissed by some fans treating me like an idiot just because of my opinions, and treating me like I'm an outcast. To be honest, I think a good amount of fans (not generalizing) of the manga/Crystal don't see the flaws the manga had that the anime rectified.
Yeah, Toei pretty much was relying on our nostalgia to get it going, and it does feel like they're just going through the motions. Them doing a mostly "page one, animate that, page two, animate that...etc." was my biggest fear about Crystal and sadly it has been realized. I pretty much agree with everything else you've said here again, especially with the characterizations of the Inners, but which Stars are you talking about, the Stars manga, or the Stars anime from 1996? Looking back on it, Stars wasn't that great in the manga also, and Toei did more improvements with that sans the world-building and final battle, though it was good there too. I pretty much don't feel any tomboyish/Makoto vibes from Makoto here, it's like she's just an ordinary girl with long brown hair in a ponytail here (and if she's supposed to be tough, what's with that "WAAAAAAAH" whine she does when she gets knocked to the ground? She didn't do that in the manga, and it just makes her look like a complete wuss.  ). Yeah, Rei is pretty much bland in Crystal and in the majority of the manga too I'd say, I never understood how people think she's superior. Just because she doesn't like men? OK...I've heard PGSM (live action Sailor Moon)'s Rei is better though.
Yeah, Usagi and Mamoru pretty much are like that in the manga...I don't understand how people ever think those versions are superior...Crystal has made them look even more Mary Sue-ish and Gary Stu-ish. I wonder if Naoko actually likes the anime better honestly...despite the mixed reception from her I've seen on different websites, I've heard she has liked it. I do not think she would like Crystal at all and most likely would disown it. What I hope could happen is that people who may be newcomers to Sailor Moon (it's also sad that the first two horrible seasons are how people may be introduced to Sailor Moon that way), will see this, see how not so great or such it is, and see the original anime and realize how superior it is. I'm also afraid Crystal could end up being dated also, and end up drifting into obscurity being remembered as "another anime", unlike the original anime which is still a classic, considering I've heard that Crystal's come out at a time where its formula is no longer unique (though I wouldn't call the original anime dated, though some of the things it did have like floppy disks and VHSes are). The only other thing I think happens is maybe a new Sailor Moon thing is done by another anime company...just my guess. |
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