Forum - View topicCrunchyroll to drop honorifics?
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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I would like to take issue with the title of this thread because it's MX Media making that decision, and MX Media is not CrunchyRoll, even if MX Media does a lot of work for CR. But:
- CrunchyRoll also has independent contractors like Quarkboy and other people doing translations. - MX Media also does translations for Sentai Filmworks, the Haruhi novels/manga, and others (http://www.mxmediaonline.com/portfolio.html). |
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bahumut75
 Posts: 65 Location: Rochester, NY |
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Well then, your opinion is certainly valid, I don't think there is necessarily a right answer here 
I think this is probably true; the only reason I even watch with subtitles most of the time is because my roommates / friends don't speak enough Japanese to get by without them. It might be safe to say that most people who care about the little bits of information you get from honorifics and the like will be able to tell from the audio anyway. |
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Genten
 Posts: 71 Location: A Mitten (Michigan) |
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Hmmm, I don't know how to feel about this. On the one hand, I really enjoy honorfics and think that, when translated well, they can add some interesting quirks to the series (e.x Simon calling Kamina 'aniki in Gurren Lagann). On the other hand, a lot of anime these days is set outside of Japan and honorfics look very awkward when used (e.x Emma, which takes place in England, looks very odd with honorfics). So I think that you need to pick and choose which series to keep honorfics in not just make sweeping decisions to keep them out or in entirely.
So yeah, still unsure about my reaction to this news. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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I am fine with this, I don't see the point of honorifics that have no meaning in english, like -kun and -chan for example. If it actually does translate, like in some cases sensei (like in Princess Tutu, Neko-sensei-->Mr. Cat), then just translate them as they actually are like that. English doesn't have the same honorifics use, it seems weird to pretend we do, I don't go out and start calling all my friends "friend-chan" or "friend-kun" after watch an anime that takes place in school for a while, it's not affecting my use of the English language because those words are essentially nonsense concepts in English. I found it most weird to see honorifics in Funimation's Baccano! sub though, since that show takes place in America! That's just weird to me.
So yeah, I'm all for this *thumbs up* And the example of Simon calling Kamina "aniki" for me is not an honorific, that's a nickname, Bandai translated that in its dub as "Bro", keeping it as a nickname sort of thing. |
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garfield15
 Posts: 1521 |
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Yeah, "aniki" isn't really an honorific.
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Genten
Posts: 71 Location: A Mitten (Michigan) |
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Doesn't it still fall into the same category as titles like onee-san or onii-chan? I assume it'd be edited out the same as all the rest. |
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sailorspazz
 Posts: 195 Location: Portland, OR |
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I'm all for getting rid of honorifics in subs. I figure that, the people who care about them can hear them being spoken by the characters anyway, and people who don't know about them don't have to be concerned about not knowing what they mean when they show up in the subtitles. Since I know Japanese, I can listen to the honorifics and know what they mean, but I'm sure if I was watching a show in a different language that I don't know and they used honorifics in the subs, it wouldn't add any benefit to me. I remember watching 'Lost', which had many scenes set in different countries where characters were speaking other languages. I could tell, for example, during scenes in Korea, characters would add things to each others names which were probably honorifics. But not knowing Korean, it wouldn't have meant anything to me if they just slapped them in the subtitles and left it at that. Anyone who's truly interested in honorifics can easily research them.
As for cases when they are specifically mentioned by characters (i.e., 'call me x-chan', etc.), a good translator can find ways to convey the meaning in the subtitles without specifically mentioning the honorifcs (something like, 'you can talk to me less formally', or whatever sort of translation fits with the context). As the article mentioned, there are LOTS of things in Japanese that don't translate, mostly relating to levels of politeness. There's a bunch of different ways to say 'I' and 'you' in Japanese, but does that mean those need to be pointed out in the subs? "Watashi love anata"? "Boku like kimi"? There's so many things that could be pointed out in the subs, but they aren't because it would look ridiculous. It's also not really translating if you're just leaving things there that a person reading the subs can't understand. Anything truly complicated that can't be conveyed in a standard translation could be explained through translation notes. |
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bahumut75
Posts: 65 Location: Rochester, NY |
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Its not entirely different. Like classicalzawa said, it is pretty similar to the way we would use "bro" in English. Not necessarily a nickname or a term of endearment, but it indicates that Simon looks up to and respects Kamina. I do think it has a rougher connotation than "bro" does; it was particularly popular in Yakuza/Mafia type environments, although that isn't the only place its used :p |
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Ahab
Posts: 28 |
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*nods head in agreement* This is exactly my thoughts on the matter too. Well put, Sailorspazz! |
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KanjiiZ
 Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
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I'd be more happy if they dropped them all together. Despite knowing the definition of "kun" and "chan" I can honestly say they hold no value to me. I am not a Japanese resident or of descent, so the words hold no value to me. It's as if I called one of you a "compadre". Sure you might know what it means, but it holds no cultural weight for you as it would a fellow Hispanic person.
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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If these are in fact MX-Media's views then I'm gonna have to think twice before purchasing a Sentai DVD collection that uses their subs.
I simply cannot read dubtitles. I bought the Honey & Clover DVDs, but they're simply unwatchable. Anytime a character says "Takemoto-kun" the text reads "Yuuta", "Morita-san" becomes Shinobu, "Mayama" becomes "Takumi" (and hey, there's another character at Mayama's work named Takumi so you never even know which Takumi is being referred to when he is at work). Dubtitles simply suck. If my ears hear "Last name-san" then I want to read that. I don't want to read the first name. |
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KanjiiZ
Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
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But...it's their first name. If you're not Japanese, what's the issue with you hearing the first name rather than the last name? They aren't completely changing the name like Daisaku Kusama to Johnny Sokko. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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It's a matter of what going into my ears being equal to what is on the screen to read. Anytime there is any sort of disconnect then it irritates me. It's like if I'm watching a program in Spanish that is subtitled in English and there are glaring errors in the translation, so what I'm hearing is not matching what is on the screen. There has to be an agreement between what my ears hear and what my eyes see. |
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Olivine
 Posts: 197 Location: Sol 3 |
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But what if the character isn't on a first name basis with the character he's speaking to? It would be presumptuous for me to go up to Barack Obama and go, "Hey, Barack!" The more appropriate address would be "President Obama." The two different ways of addressing him change the level and type of respect I'm conveying. It would change how he responded to me. Oh, and look, an honorific! Those silly things that aren't needed, right? The form of address characters use can be important. Just ignoring it is lazy. |
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KanjiiZ
Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
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That's a different situation altogether. This MXMedia company makes subs for typically American and Canadian audiences, correct? We really have only a few forms of endearment and respect such as Ms. and Mr. (Last Name). Other than a teacher or a much older colleague I don't see why using the last name would affect the relationship between two high school students or a friend.
It's kind of like if I walked around calling my friend Robinson instead of Joe. It just isn't right by our cultural standards unless you're Dr. House. |
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