Forum - View topicREVIEW: Lupin the Third: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine BD+DVD
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roseversailles
Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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I know Fronzel already responded but I wanted to give my two cents, as a semi-recent Lupin fan that has been checking out different parts of the franchise. In the original "Green Jacket Series" and manga, Lupin was not the nicest guy, kind of an edgy thief that wasn't the buffoon he later came to be, especially when it comes to women. His silly behavior is to psyche out his enemies, so that they aren't expecting him to be that competent when the time comes to square off. When the first few episodes didn't do well due to their violence/sexual content (which was mild, really) and pulpy nature, the series was rebooted by a few members of future Studio Ghibli, namely Takahata and Miyazaki. The series became softer, more lighthearted, with the genial romps and adventure that has become synonymous with the name "Lupin III." This continued until the third series, the Pink Jacket, which became so goofy that fans kind of look down on it, and as a result it has yet to be released stateside. So, to sum up, this Lupin is the truest interpretation we've had in a long time, as he is closest to what Monkey Punch originally wrote. I hope my post hasn't been completely dull P.S. My personal favorite rendition of Lupin has to be the Cagliostro Lupin! He's just so... nice and charming, that it's kind of fun to see him that way. Though I do like the Red Jacket series quite a bit, too! |
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ZODDGUTS
Posts: 600 |
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Terrible series that only showed that Fujiko can't carry a series and that it's better left off with Lupin being the lead.
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penguintruth
Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Maybe the early episodes didn't do well because they were horrendously awful. Have you seen those early episodes? It's not that they were too dark or violent, they were just ludicrous and poorly written. I mean, the first episode of the series is Lupin in a race car, then foiling the plan of some organization that wants to kill him for no stated reason and blowing up the race track. No establishment of who he is or what he does. There isn't even a real caper until several episodes in. The episode with the fake magic guy is based on one of Monkey Punch's earliest (and worst) manga chapters. Then there's the episode with the "witch", where they don't even explain how that woman is a witch or really anything. The show only gets on its feet when Goemon comes in. What Miyazaki later added wasn't more lighteheartedness. It was FOCUS. Episodes actually became about something instead of just random scenes to titillate. And for the people who think Miyazaki's Lupin was too much of a soft touch, the dude directed an episode wherein Fujiko is not wearing any underwear for most of it and the villain is trying to nuke cities and another where robots tear up the city and people are killed. The villain of Castle of Cagliostro is crushed to death by giant clock hands and Lupin is bloodier than he's ever been in the TV shows when he's brutally gunned down by the Count's assistant, which he barely survives. So while yes, he did lean towards a more philanthropic, heroic Lupin, at least he knew the world Lupin lived in and understood its dangers. |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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Ha ha! Well put! I really liked the fake magic-guy episode, but probably because I had been introduced to Lupin through the second series episodes on Adult Swim and found the melancholy touches in that episode intriguingly different from what I was expecting. I will say I rather like the early depiction of Fujiko, where she's actually mysterious and dangerous (she outright tries to shoot Lupin a few times). In the second series she's usually a somewhat ridiculous character who usually just nags Lupin to give her jewels. And there are plenty of episodes in the second series which are both silly and unfocused, so I think the wrong lessons were drawn about what the early series 1 episodes did wrong and what the later ones did right (and vice versa). |
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hojo 360
Posts: 429 |
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Idk i like Strait's lupin it's not the best but not bad anyway my fav lupin at this point still and all ways will be Tony OLIVER wish funi got him but still not a bad buy
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roseversailles
Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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I have, and agree with your sentiments! I did like the episode with Pycal to an extent, but generally skip over the early episodes for my favorite segment of the series (namely, Red Jacket). Miyazaki was able to craft the most popular version of Lupin, and with good reason---he had the right balance of buffoon and gentleman thief. Most of what I wrote was what has been considered the "general consensus" about why the early Lupin didn't work as well as Miyazaki's takeover. However, I'm with you---I like my Lupin silly, though I didn't have a problem with his incarnation in ....Fujiko Mine. |
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3984 |
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Excellent review. Looking forward to my copy arriving.
Totally agree, absolutely love her Fujiko, can't wait to watch this. |
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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Even Pink Jacket is more "true to Monkey Punch" than Fujiko. Look past the hivemind-hate for that season and you'll see this to be the case.
It's not dull, but it's certainly very wrong. Especially since you also said this just now:
How is Fujiko Lupin remotely similar to manga Lupin? You're even implying that manga Lupin is not extremely wacky. Have you actually read the manga, or are you going by what you read on Wikipedia?
Oh for god's sake The online misunderstandings of this character are just getting sillier and sillier. When asked "who should play Lupin in a live action adaptation?", Monkey Punch said "Jim Carrey". Apparently that's because he's NOT meant to be a goofy character!? Okay, screw it, time to actually make my point with scans. And these are from the very first volume (aside from the last one, which is from v2). I get the feeling that people mistake "the manga has more violence and sex, and Fujiko also has violence and sex" for "the manga and Fujiko are actually similar in tone and characterization". They don't even consider that the dark aspects in the manga are treated humorously. Manga Lupin was actually a proper cartoon character - he made all sorts of funny faces and poses and was full of life. He was stylish, but still funny. He didn't just sit around looking 'cool', occasionally switching to 'funny mode' in the same way that a normal anime character switches to 'chibi mode'. It was all part of who he was. I would go as far as to say that Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt has more in common the Lupin manga with than the Fujiko anime. Comedic, puerile, "everything goes, screw logic, let's just have a good time" tone, extremely fast-paced, vulgar and shameless. Manga Lupin also pretty much treats women the same way that Panty treats men (actually, he was FAR more of a gentleman in Fujiko).
How were the Pycal episode or chapter bad? How was the prison escape episode bad? And the Goemon introduction episode, along with the one where he finally joins Lupin, were absolutely great. It seems to me like you're judging Lupin episodes far too much by how much logical sense they make. The prison escape episode didn't make that much sense and frankly wasn't that good in the manga, but the anime took it to a whole new level as far as characterization goes. The episode about Fujiko's past was also more fun than anything in Fujiiko aside from episodes 1 and 5. It had a darker feeling to it while still not becoming as annoyingly full of itself. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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You're being very selective. I've read the manga and it does indeed have a cynical, cruel nature to it. You're using early material, and yet you're forgetting the very first Lupin story wherein women are raped and murdered and another story from the same volume wherein a man has multiple personalities and meets a grizzly end. There's a pervasive sense that the characters are sneering at a very dark, disturbing world. It's not a candy colored mug fest. Those are moments of levity, similar to the ones in this newer show.
You aren't the ONLY person to actually read the manga, you know. Also, the prison episode bothers me because why would Lupin be on death row for thievery? Wouldn't there be a trial, as well? It just tries to work on the premise of Lupin's ultimate escape plan without establishing any kind of logic. |
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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"Lupin reminds us of the joys of not being too stressed. It’s okay to be a little bit mischievous and carefree." - Monkey Punch
"You may say it is unrealistic. But, so what? I’d like you to escape from reality at least while you are watching Lupin’s actions. Even for a little while, if you can get away from such realities as exam hell, debts, traffic nightmares, taxes and other problems, it was well worth it for Lupin to be born." - Monkey Punch, again. Lupin is intended to be fun and careless above all else and this has come from the mouth of the creator.
Has it not occurred you that something can be equal parts humorous and dark? Humor doesn't have to be 'candy-colored'. You can make jokes about awful things but they will still be jokes. In fact, I could argue that perhaps most humor tends to revolve around misfortune of some kind. Humor can be a way to bring levity into some very dark places. Is the first chapter of the Lupin manga really your idea of a 'serious' work? Practically every page has some kind of funny facial expression, pose or gag in it: ^^^ Fujiko would NEVER have had jokes like this one It's almost as if some people read the manga as a book, completely disregarding the vastly different tone that funny drawings create. In fact, this should be the most glaring difference between Fujiko and the Lupin manga: the art. The character drawings in Fujiko take themselves a hell of a lot more seriously than Monkey Punch drawings. Monkey Punch manga is something that could be called 'cartoony'. Fujiko... not so much, aside from the aforementioned 'wacky moments' that can be compared to a typical anime's 'chibi moments'. Look at this scene from the first volume of World's Most Wanted, and note how it is the drawings that ultimately decide the tone of the scene: http://i.imgur.com/SmB6MuW.jpg |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Let me put it this way: which is more like Monkey Punch's manga, this show or the past few decades of stale TV specials?
All that was added was a tad more of a pulp-y feel to it. |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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I stopped watching Fujiko about two-thirds of the way through because I simply could not engage with any of the characters. They all seemed much too much like cardboard cutouts with little depth. Perhaps that is in keeping with the original, which I have never watched, but it left me yearning for more than what Okada provided. Fujiko had the trappings of a mature adult story, but, for me at least, it didn't deliver on its promise.
Even the girls in Okada's AKB0048 have more emotional complexity than Fujiko. |
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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Neither are at all like the manga. Generic kids' cartoon (specials) vs. generic 'adult, serious' animation (Fujiko). I don't understand how Fujiko's serious, frankly quite feminine art, ongoing 'look-at-how-serious-I-am' story and often-nonexistent humor compare to the manga's extremely fast-paced, episodic stories, humor and loose, sketchy, cartoony, goofy art. At all. They both have violence and sex and that's it. |
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Myaow
Posts: 1068 |
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Good points and funny examples, uguu! "Fujiko" is good stuff but it's not quite like Monkey Punch's manga... though I'm not quite certain that's a bad thing, since I think I liked "Fujiko" a bit more than you did. I really value how Yamamoto and Okada and the staff owned the show and made it something that is unmistakably a Yamamoto/Okada/Koike/etc anime. Kind of like how "Cagliostro" is unmistakably a Miyazaki anime, and the manga is unmistakably Monkey Punch's. One of the real beauties of the Lupin series for me is how so many artists with really unique, special styles have been able to use its characters as a way to express their own awesome visions rather than everyone sticking to one homogenous take. I just think that's so cool and fun!
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LagannImpact
Posts: 574 |
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Wow, Myaow, I think you just won the thread!
It's a shame the [as] powers that be are pretty dead-set against nudity and this most likely won't be ending up on Toonami, even at 2:30 AM in November (pretty much the only timeslot they have left this year). However, then again it hasn't been announced for Neon Alley, where it would really fit along the likes of Berserk movies and Fate/Zero... |
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