Forum - View topicGhost Stories and the legacy of Steven Foster.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1011 |
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Well, forgive me for not being 100% clear, although I would say that not giving the voice actors, or even the ADR director, the Japanese scripts at least says that it's a case of the Japanese licensors implicitly saying that they wanted them to make it a gag dub, or at the very least wanted the dub to turn out very different than the original version.
Well, at least in the case of the latter three, 4kids and especially Disney aren't really any under obligation to be in any way faithful as they aren't actually anime licensing companies. Does it excuse it? No, not really. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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The gag dubs that we have been talking about are not something that is done by the translator. These dubs are part of the adaptation that is done after the translation. If you do not like these dubs you should be directing your outrage at the ADR script writers, not the translators. Just as I give my praise to the ADR script writers, and the actors who ad-lib some of the dialog.. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6290 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Exactly, Touma. 
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Although, going by the famous example of Shinesman, there's a difference between improving the Western-humor timing of a show that's even considered mildly unfunny at home, and "punishing" a show for being Bad. Improving is trying to make something work, Gagging is being High Holy Hip judge, jury and executioner. Have to ask, do the Japanese even HAVE a concept of "Joke dubs"? They don't understand the Western perception of their industry enough to appreciate why one company might not take a series seriously, or "think it was crap", or even have a stoner-CN who thinks all anime is Teh Geek and wants to hip-ridicule the entire format. Did they say "Be free with the translation, we've done the best we can", or did they say "Clown it up with ad-libs as much as you like"? (Again--going back one more time to the Funi/Frog metaphor--Todd and the company kept protesting, "But they APPROVED! They wouldn't let us dub until we had the licensors' APPROVAL!". And we, like good naive fans, were automatically assuming that was identical to Ghibli's lordly overseeing of any Disney cuts or translations in their dub. When Funi's liberties started becoming obvious, it brought up the question, just what exactly did the JP company "approve", and at what stage before or after? Did they think it was hilarious to insert a Christian Bale/Dark Knight joke after the dub, or was the approval just for various name changes and localizations, and Funi believed they were allowed to wave the JP company's signed agreement in the fans' faces as universal carte blanche for all offenses?) |
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mdo7
Posts: 6290 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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The only joke dub I know Japan did was [url=http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Beast_Wars:_Transformers_(franchise)#Japanese_release]Beast Wars: Transformers[/url]. That American animation got a dumbed down dub when it went to Japan (sadly the video of the dub has been removed on Youtube, but here's the Japanese opening, does that remind you how 4kids did this to anime). So Japan does know how to do a gag dub, and Beast Wars was an example of that. It maybe possible that Japan may had more joke dub on American cartoon, but finding that is hard. |
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gloverrandal
Posts: 406 Location: Oita |
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Tis a good point, if a Japanese company did indeed say "be free with the translation" turning it into an Adult Swim cartoon was perhaps not their intention of "be free". Context is always a good thing, as are cultural differences in practices. I've watched a lot of Japanese dubs of American cartoons in the past 10 years and I have never really seen a gag dub to the extent that I see from American companies like SGT Frog or Ghost Stories or Shin-chan. Most of them, even the ones aimed at young children, are pretty literally translated. I think Japan in general tries to respect everyone, so they might find the idea of turning someone's work into a mockery a pretty disrespectful thing to do.
Approval does not necessarily mean too much I would think. How many Japanese companies have an emotional investment in the American market beyond a royalty paycheck or a licensing fee? What America or any other country does with a dub of a show has no affect on them or Japanese fans. Japanese fans of an anime will most likely not even know the show airing in America, let alone care. From what we have heard, Toei's problem with 4Kids was that One Piece was not as popular as they wanted, not that they completely altered the script and changed everything in the show. One Piece is an iconic show, but not even Toei cares what America does with it in the end. Why would they? How good or bad the One Piece dub was has no affect on the image of the anime in Japan, after all. Now, what the actual writers and directors think, we may never know. The only instance of a company really being upset over content changes I can think of is the Warriors of the Wind fiasco with Disney and Ghibli. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6290 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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So Beast Wars: Transformers was the only exception? |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13581 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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mdo7, the post I was talking about with the hate towards Japanese dubs was a forum thread where there'd be a lot of hate for a Japanese anime dub.
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EricJ2
Posts: 4016 |
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I can't even say it was an example-- "4Kids'ed up", clearly, but again, that's an ocean of difference from being "Funi'ed up" or even, heaven forbid "Swimmed up". In 4Kids' case, I'd rather take the good honest commercialism of trying to sell Pokemon toys to American kids, by any localization necessary, over the snide backhandedness of "improving" a dub with hip ad-libs aimed at the slacker crowd. 4Kids wants to sell an acquisition to its viewers, not apologize for it. And with Beast Wars, I'm guessing Japan had the similar interpretation: Some kids' shows are kids' shows, if they're commercial enough, and kids don't take them too ponderously. Although if we did a hilarious potty mouthed anime-haters' goof-redub of Pretty Cure for Adult Swim, they might have cause to complain. Last edited by EricJ2 on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SquadmemberRitsu
 Posts: 1391 |
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People really need to stop comparing Ghost Stories to hackjobs like 4kids One Piece and Sailor Moon.
You see, the reason why those shows still remain popular to this day is largely in spite of the localisation choices made by the companies who originally brought them to the west. Those companies may have introduced the shows to western audiences before anyone else but trust me when I say the people who fondly remember Sailor Moon solely because of the added homophobia or One Piece because of Sanji's lollipop are a minority. In fact, you could argue that what 4kids did to One Piece actually greatly harmed the show's chances of becoming as popular as Naruto and Bleach were when they first came to the west. Ghost Stories is the exact opposite. Literally the only reason we're still talking about this one unremarkable practically forgotten kid's show (Which never had any chance of becoming popular in the west otherwise) is because ADV gave it a gag dub. Hell, I'd wager that every single one of you complaining about this nearly decade old issue would never have even heard about the show if it weren't for the attention that ADV's gag dub gave it. But hey, who cares about that? A few contrarians on the internet are mad about it so they must have made a bad decision. |
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gloverrandal
Posts: 406 Location: Oita |
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I've never watched Beast Wars so I don't know what the Japanese dub is like, but isn't Transformers originally a Japanese property? But if it is a gag dub then it would be the only Japanese gag dub I've heard of. Maybe it has to do with it being a Transformers series, maybe? I kind of like the theme song you linked to, though. It sounds a lot better than the English one.
I'm afraid I don't really approve of this. By your logic, companies should make gag dubs on any and all shows that are not at the top of popularity charts. There are a lot of old anime people do not talk about to this day. I think I'm the only person who remember shows like Bamboo Blade and Daughter of Twenty Faces, but that does not mean the companies in charge of them should have made them gag dubs to stand out and be remembered. I think by their very nature shows which only run 13 to 26 episodes will never be as well ingrained in people's memories or remembered as well as shows which run for years and years like One Piece and Sailor Moon. It's unrealistic to expect a 26 episode series from the late 90s or early 2000s to still be talked about today. It doesn't make it any less deserving of respect, though. Even if all people talk about Ghost Stories is for the dub, it's a sign the dub was not the objectively correct thing to do as some people may say. It's clearly a very controversial topic. I myself know of Ghost Stories, or Gakkou no Kaidan if you wish, because I am a big fan of those kinds of anime. I also love Gegege no Kitaro (all the different iterations of it), Inuyasha, and the current Youkai Watch. I adore anime about Japanese legends and mythology. I could understand those types of shows do not appeal to the average American, but still I don't think that justifies a gag dub. I did not even know of the dub's content until I mentioned it off hand to someone one time and they made a joke about something a character said I didn't understand and it turns out it was a reference to a gag in the dub |
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Touma
Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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Why, and to whom, would it need to be justified? |
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EricJ2
Posts: 4016 |
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The company, when it complains, and the paying fans, when they complain LOUDER. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Some phrases don't translate properly to English as in they don't convey an idea fully. Translation can be as much knowing Japanese as it is knowing how to bring that into an understandable English that gets across was the original text meant. Of course this is a spectrum that falls between completely losing all context with embellishing or being super literal. Even working with amateur eromanga translators, you can grasp a difference in literacy and voice. One path isn't necessarily superior to the other, since a line can be translated in so many ways. Of course when you factor in dubbing an entire new level of accuracy can be lost in places because that script must be reworked to match lipflaps. I've noticed for several anime when watching dubs with the subtitles on that when lips aren't seen, the script and dub tend to match. – I don't think you could get away with gag dubs anymore when every single show will have a built in audience thanks to streaming/fansubs. There are no more obscure TV anime. Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bs3311
 Posts: 416 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Alright, guess we enemies must join forces! With me SquidmembeRitsu!? lol
like a non threatening goose? 
The company did'nt care yet was enjoying the end product, majority of fans in the past complained, but now people have come to realize that thanks to what the minority had to say resulted in the majority lifting the dub in their open arms. That LOUD complaining is, "WHY IS THERE NO DUBS LIKE THESE?" Kill Me Baby and Guin Saga were to weak. While Panty and Stocking and Steins;Gate were not trying hard enough. This goes to gloverrandal to:
We have that kind of entitlement too in our hearts, like how I want Funimation to pick a side on the dubbing spectrum instead of cattering to both while picking casual/annoying female lead VA's. Or Sentai getting there edits togethor when im gladley okay that there scripts and dub follow one side of the spectrum. But cmon. ADV was able to do WHATEVER THEY WANTED! Whatever the boss says, "aka. Japanese licensors." goes unless moments in the past ala Matt Greenfeild arguing about certain grammer needed to be changed in the NGE script. Chris Patton said it, Steven said it, EVEN greg ayres said that in a convention around cincinnati Ohio. Plus, its not just the ADR director/scriptwriters. But the actors themselves had a say in ab libing or even changning the directors mind in what to say by reworking the script. In how Greg Ayres says a line about an actors carreer, which changed a line inside the booth. And if you watch the credits in the DVD's on the scriptwriters, you can see some of the actors as credited. Its not just a, "gag dub" when directors and actors alike could work togethor to contribute towards it and be credited for the final product. That rarely happens in the buisness of anime VAing. And if you say i'm just stating the same thing over and over, then the fact of the matter is that both of you are still poking whats left of the dead horse beaten to a bloody pulp on the street. |
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