Forum - View topicREVIEW: Sword Art Online the Movie: Ordinal Scale
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harminia
 Posts: 2006 Location: australia |
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I'm not a big SAO fan, and I haven't seen much of it beyond skimming bits for my job, but I knew enough to understand probably 99% of the cameos and stuff. I also shouted out loud when spoiler[Yuuki] appeared, even though I have little emotional attachment to anything SAO related.
I really enjoyed the movie. The plot itself was weak and spoiler[the whole motivation for the bad guy was completely ridiculous and there were so many plot holes and stuff] but it was really enjoyable. It looked beautiful. It sounded beautiful. I've been listening to a few tracks from it for the past few weeks after I saw the film. My favourite moment is when spoiler[Eiji broke] Klein's spoiler[arm and held him up to the monster.] That bit was so well done, and the music was so perfect. It's probably one of the best scenes I've seen in an anime for a few years. I also loved what a grump Kirito was for lots of the film. He was like swinging between being a lazy nerd and being an elitist gamer and all the girls were sick of his attitude. It was nice when he was a bit useless too. spoiler[Of course, when he got the Really Big Sword and KO'd the enemies I groaned. godmode Kirito is back, of course] Also, great to see Asuna kicking butt for most of the film spoiler[even at the end, when she'd lost her memories but still chose to dive into the last battle and saved everyone's asses.] So yeah, overall, from a non-fan, I actually really enjoyed the film. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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In my opinion, the god-moding argument in regards to Kirito is terribly, terribly overused. Everyone talks about how overpowered he is. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Regardless of what side they fall in, it's all viewers ever have to say. I won't deny that there's some merit to that, but to me, the god-moding moments (like at the beginning of the third episode) are just kind of dumb.
No, my main issue with the main character is that he's about as interesting and unique as a slice of plain white toast. Yet for some reason, the narrative felt that Kazuto "Kirito" Kirigaya was far more worthy of protagonisthood than other, more deserving characters. He's constantly hogging the spotlight, even when it was actively detrimental to the story. For example, I felt the narrative would have been far stronger if Asuna was the one allowed to deliver the final blow to Kuradeel than Kirito did. A friend of mine, (you probably know who she is), proposed that Kirito's character arc was about him learning the value of friendship and teamwork and so on. I honestly don't mind that message, but there's one problem with how it's portrayed here. In order for Kirito to effectively learn his lesson about needing other people, he kind of has to want the opposite of that. He doesn't. His goal, at the end of the day, is to escape Sword Art Online and save as many players as possible. In fact, why DOES he want to escape Sword Art Online that badly? Why does he do anything he does throughout the narrative? I don't know. And that's the problem; not once did the narrative make clear what Kirito's motive was for any of his actions throughout the story. There's no context, and so I don't care about whether or not Kirito succeeds or fails. A better example I'd use comes from another animated film that was released not too long ago- The Lego Batman Movie. Lego Batman's goal, motive, and need are very clearly outlined for the audience. His goal is to keep the status quo of being left alone with only Alfred for company. His motive is his fear of having a family again after losing his parents (which is outrighted stated by Alfred). His need is allowing people into his life, whether it be plucky orphan Dick Grayson, or new police commissioner Barbara Gordon, or even his bitter ex-boyfriend The Joker. And all three- the goal, motive, and need- fit together like puzzle pieces. Kirito's goal (escaping SAO) and need (Asuna) don't connect, and it doesn't help that his motive- arguably the most important piece- is completely missing. Anyway, I am glad the movie did well. Maybe it'll be fun. I did hear the second season was a huge improvement compared to the first, as it does have the beloved "Mother's Rosario" arc and the existence of Sinon and Yuuki. Even people who didn't like the first season seemed to enjoy the second. I'll keep an open mind, just like with my original goal in recapping the series. |
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scrwbll19
Posts: 87 |
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I just got back from the theater, and here are some of my thoughts.
I found the movie to be quite enjoyable overall. I think it did well in targeting its audience and fitting nicely into the franchise. That said, I have been playing the mobile app game "Memory Defrag" that had some prelude events built into it. So, some of the things found in the game were certainly a nice bonus for me. It certainly helped me to understand the game mechanics of the movie. Taking all of that in, I will start with the bad and then go to the good to leave people on a high note. My first two complaints are kind of minor but jumped out at me when I was in the theater. In the opening scene, we see Asuna in her bedroom, but the way that Asuna's hands and arms are drawn are somewhat chubby and disproportionate. This was probably the biggest drawing flaw in the entire movie, but it was enough for me to remember it. Fast-forward to the scene with Kirito and Asuna in her bedroom. [spoiler]After Kirito lunges at her when they are lying on her bed,[/spoiler] Asuna shows a look of surprise. In the next shot though, her expression has changed completely, and you can tell that it was drawn by another animator. This created a rough discontinuity for me. Seeing the plot was somewhat bare-bones, it left some odd impressions on me. As many have stated, the pacing was an issue. Many issues are left unexplained or unresolved at the end of the movie like explaining how memories could be restored (not stolen), how it is possible for two Yunas to exist, or how Kirito was able to get enough information about the villian's acts to form more than circumstantial evidence. (Also, why do Yui show usually in pixie form, only to appear quickly in her "full-sized" form for a brief moment?) On top of this, the movie attempts to develop some themes and philosophical points, but it later abandons many of these with a summary line or two from the characters without delving into the deeper implications. There are several attempts to point out the problems of AR and VR, but all of these seem to be given up in favor of rushing the plot along. This is a real shame, given that the points that are brought up have an incredible amount to offer to the philosophical and scientific communities at least. Lastly, the final fight felt somewhat contrived, as it felt more like a bonus round of a character parade to fans (which I am one) than a necessary fight. For me, seeing Yuuki pop out was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back on this one, albeit I am not a "Mother's Rosario" arc fan.It was not so much having the characters there but having them come out of seemingly nowhere that bothered me. Yes, Yui is amazing and can do that kind of stuff, but anyone who has played an MMO or dealt with people in real life can attest that this kind of simply does not happen. Sure, the power of friendship is a good thing, but it is rare to find people willing to drop everything at the drop of a hat. Onto the good stuff, the animation and the music overall were definitely up to snuff. While it is certainly not the best animated movie I have seen in terms of its animation, the overall visuals were worth it. The use of CG was not tacky or done in a rush. Some of the focus on the visuals seemed to pay attention special detail to things that seemed to underline some symbolism and themes like the shot of the main villain's desk. As for the music, Kajiura Yuki never seems to disappoint her fans. For those who are not her fans though, you probably could listen to a lot of her other stuff and get an idea for how this OST sounds. To me, Yuna's songs took a cross between Kajiura's anime work and Kalafina (still anime-ish) with slightly more of a pop rock edge. While they are no "Sousei no Aquarion" or "A Cruel Angel's Thesis," they will still be in my playlist for some good music. It was nice how they coordinated the music with the fights as well. Despite my complaints about the plot above, I did find the antagonists' motives to be at least somewhat convincing and probably one of the only parts of the film's plot that felt more natural. The tragic nature of the antagonists' backstories were up there with Yuuki's arc in one sense, seeing that they provided a nice contrast to the protagonists, whom have moved on with their lives to an extent. On the flip side (or fripside), seeing Kirito and Asuna's relationship deepen was worth it. (However, hearng Silica and Liz's jealous comments felt odd and out of place.) Overall, I would say this movie is a must for any SAO fan. It provides plenty of action, fun, and humor to keep viewers entertained. I would give this movie about an 8/10, if I am liberal. However, the problems with the plot would probably put me closer to a 7.5/10. |
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jymmy
 Posts: 1244 |
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HeeroTX mentioned it in passing, but the movie conveyed quite clearly that Eiji's spoiler[ game-dominating strength was due to him wearing muscle-enhancing equipment of some kind. ]. That's why when Kirito spoiler[rips it off, he handily beats him... although the fact that he was roughly on par with him prior to this breaks suspension of disbelief, including ruining the whole "hey, this is augmented reality; you can't do that inhuman shit anymore" angle they specifically stressed earlier on in the movie by having them both dive horizontally through the air and run at superhuman speed, etc.]. Unless it's like Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! or that episode of South Park where we're being presented with the fantasy inside their own heads... which would be kind of funny.
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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........Akane, forgive me but asking such questions like that is like asking "Why do the teenagers run away from the serial killer in horror flicks?" Aside from that, the narrative makes his motives pretty clear for each arc: Aincrad arc goal: Escape from SAO. Why? Because it's a deathtrap and he's being held there against his will; also that will save everyone else. Learning that Asuna wants out makes his will stronger than ever to achieve this goal.. Alfheim goal: Rescue Asuna. Why? Because he loves her and does not want a creepy pervert to take her from him. Really, I do not get how anyone can complain how these answers are "missing" when the bulk of them are just using common sense. Even before reading the novels, I never questioned Kirito's actions. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Okay, so there's this moment in Episode Five where Kirito is just hanging around, enjoying the fake weather. Asuna comes up to him and tells him off for not helping her guild out earlier with a raid. He just brushes it off, stating the following: "Yeah, but right now, we're not in the real world, are we? We're in Aincrad." That is the exact quote, by the way. So...does he want to get out or not? Does he care about people or not? Like I said, in order for his lesson about learning the value of needing people to be effective, he has to want the exact opposite first. For someone who's a supposed loner, he sure does go out of his way to help people in Episodes Four and Seven. You still didn't answer my actual question, though. Why does Kirito want to leave so badly? Because it's a death trap? That's not a motive, that's a statement of fact. Because it'll save everyone? That's his goal, not his motive. If he truly wanted to be left alone, then Kirito would have either done nothing or retreated somewhere far away where he could fight monsters on his own. Also, SAO is not a horror anime. It's sci-fi fantasy adventure, and I expect better motives out of my fantasy protags than just fear. He doesn't even act scared once throughout the first fourteen episodes. Compare Kirito's reaction to being cornered by Kuradeel to Edward Elric's reaction to almost becoming Barry the Chopper's next victim in the first FMA anime. There's a very clear difference; Edward is absolutely terrified for his life, while Kirito reacts with shock and some anger, but not fear. He should be scared, but he's not. At the end of the day, Kirito should want to get something out of whatever he's doing. Not once did the anime sit down and make clear what he wanted for himself at the end of the day. And considering that the "lack of motive" thing was the only argument you chose to debate, I'll have to assume that you either agree with everything else I've said or don't have an effective counterargument. In regards to "Fairy Dance", I'm far more lenient with Kirito there because 1) it's much too late to get me to care and 2) there's far worse problems like the idiot plot and the melodramatic soap opera stuff with Suguha. I may admit I'm a bit harsh when it comes to Kirito, but that's because I felt there was far more potential in him that was never untapped. Throughout the first episode, every piece of significant dialogue that came out of Kirito's mouth was either exposition about SAO or about video games in general. Honestly, starting the story off in SAO was a huge mistake, in my opinion. because I never got to know who Kirito was in reality. All I know about him is his video game self, who I don't care about. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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He does....he was just making the best out of a bad situation there. A part of Kirito's heart really does like Aincrad a lot. Even as an outside viewer, we can see how the atmosphere is really beautiful and pleasant when monsters and PKers aren't around. It's a deathtrap disguised as a paradise. We've seen the trope countless times where a character becomes trapped in an illusion that is everything they desire so they may not want to leave right away to choose that harsher reality. Also if you do not take breaks from battling monsters, you will mentally exhaust yourself, which could result in your demise.....so that's probably what he was doing in that scene.
Um I thought goals and motives were the same thing? I think you're being a little nitpicky here. lol
How about the desire to live like a human instead of staying a comatose vegetable? It may be a fantasy adventure but that doesn't lessen how horrific the setting is in the first 13 episodes.
Kirito's fear is mostly for the sake of others, not himself. He's kinda like Shirou from F/SN; he doesn't value his own life all that much but wants to save other people (except he's way smarter and more cautious than Shirou, lol) The thing he seems to be afraid of the most is witnessing others dying in front of him. The event with the Black Cat guild traumatized him. It's only until after Kuradeel attacked him that he realizes he needs to survive for Asuna's sake; that she would be sad if he died. Then when he discovers that he can be happy being next to her, he finally begins to value himself. As for comparing his reactions to Ed's reactions, that's a poor argument. Not all humans act the exact same way when they are afraid. Some are able to keep calm...and some scream and run around in circles. Ed has always been more dramatic anyway; that's just who he is. But I've definitely seen fear on Kirito's face....so I have no idea where you're coming from, here.
Lol, I don't want to tackle everything I disagree with; I have no desire to repeat myself since we're argued about this several times. But you saying "They don't explain why he wants to escape the game" just made me go "HUH?" They shouldn't have to. No sane human being would be okay with that situation. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Okay, let me brief because I'm exhausted and I'm currently suffering from anxiety because of an upcoming deep clean at the dentists on Thursday.
A goal and a motive or not the same thing at all. Think of it this way- a goal is an external want, while a motive is an internal want, the latter driving the former. For example- *Shinji Ikari's goal is to save the planet with his giant robot, but his motive is to gain the approval and love of his perpetually uncaring father. *Yuuri Katsuki's goal is to win the gold medal at the Grand Prix, but his motive is to be validated due to his low self-esteem. *Ryuko Matoi's goal is to track down Satsuki Kiryuuin and defeat her in battle, but her motive is to find her father's murderer. (This only applies to the first half or so of the series) In other words, "If I save the world, my father will love me." "If I win the gold medal, I will be worth something." "If I defeat the student council president, I'll know who killed my dad." Then there's Kirito. "If I get out...". And that's it. Presumably, he'll just go back to his everyday life, but I don't know enough about his everyday life. There's just nothing satisfying to get me to care about if he succeeds in escaping or not. Honestly, I think it would have been really awesome if he had an internal conflict over whether or not he wanted to leave. As Evangelion put it: "What's wrong with running away from reality if it sucks?" At least, that's what I wanted SAO to be about. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18220 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I always had the impression from the anime that Kirito's goal was less "escape from the game" than "beat the game." He was presented as a gamer to the core (you'd practically have to be to be a beta tester) and this is literally the game of his life, so him surviving the game equates to him winning. What other motivation does he actually need? Only when he more emotionally connects to Asuna does he start having goals other than that.
I'll admit, though, that this could have been emphasized more in the anime. The mix of "be the strongest in the game" and "make sure Asuna survives to fulfill her destiny as the person who will lead the front lines" comes through much more strongly in the Progressive novels. So, too, do the occasional fears Kirito has. As presented in the anime, the only thing that he normally seems to fear is (as other have noted) losing people he's come to care about, though he definitely shows a bit of fear before going after the Floor 74 boss. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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@ Key
I agree that "beating the game" could have worked. SAO Abridged (which is the best thing ever and everyone should watch because oh my god it's amazing) ran with that, actually. In there, Kirito is a Grade-A a**hole who's driven mainly by his own inflated ego and desire to show off to everyone else. spoiler[And later on, his guilt and trauma over losing Sachi]. To me, I feel like any communication over Kirito's motives and goals wasn't effective and was far too nebulous. I can't connect to him. I don't understand him. I can understand Madoka Kaname or Yuuri Katsuki or Kenzou Tenma perfectly, but Kirito? When I look it him, I feel the emotional equivalent of watching a coat of white paint dry. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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@Key:
Agreed and Oh, so you're reading Progressive too? Enjoyable, isn't it. :'D Akane, it's funny you mentioned Kaname Madoka because I always felt like she was a pretty bland protagonist, herself. I don't get her personality so well except "timid with low self esteem". I like her design and she is cute....but that's about it. Compared to other magical girl MCs, she's quite boring. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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@ Chiibi
I can forgive those who think Madoka Kaname is kind of boring. It's one of those things where a rewatch and tons of hindsight are needed in order to really get to the meat of her character. There's a moment in the third episode where Madoka and Mami are in Charlotte's labyrinth and both of them are completely alone with each other. Madoka confesses that she doesn't think very highly of herself, and that she doesn't have any special talents. Before this, we see that Madoka has a pretty good life. She has a happy family who adores her, a good school, two best friends, and is overall lucky to be where she is. Why would she make a contract with Kyubey at all? This scene gives a good answer; because she wants to have a purpose greater than herself. In other words, she wants adventure in the great wide somewhere. Side note, I never did think Madoka Magica had a real main lead so much as an ensemble cast. Homura and Sayaka are just as much leads as Madoka, and their stories just as important. Further side note, I need more SAO Abridged. When's Episode Eleven? |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18220 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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While I don't have quite so negative an impression of Kirito (he has at least some character), I do agree that he's the franchise's weak link in a characterization sense. That's part of the reason why my favorite arc is the one where he's only minimally involved (Mother's Rosario). And yeah, I've been reviewing the Progressive novels, so. . . As for Madoka, I see here as an entirely different case. She's more bland by comparison, as she is the mild one in a collection of personality powerhouses. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Kirito's "motive" is to be the hero, he WANTS to help others. This is shown right from the beginning when he teaches Klein how to play the game, and EVERYTHING he does from the main plot to every single side story is about him trying to help other people with THEIR goals. That is why he wants to beat the game, to help OTHER people. That's why he becomes the "lone swordsman" because that's the one way he can stop all the OTHER people from turning on each other.
One could argue that if not for the Black Cats debacle, he might've settled into a comfortable routine just hanging out with friends and doing exactly what you say, sitting around enjoying "life" in Aincrad. But he literally watched several people DIE right in front of him, and from then on he's trying to minimize that. That's why he stops laughing coffin, that's why he stops Titan's Hand, that's why he joins GGO, that's why he gets involved in every non-Asuna related thing in Fairy Dance, and arguably WHY he has to "save" Asuna too. That's why he IGNORES Yuuki's challenge in Mother's Rosario (doesn't need to prove his strength) but HELPS Asuna/Sleeping Knights. I'd argue that's why he doesn't initially get involved in Ordinal Scale and doesn't care that he's mostly ineffective initially. Kirito's motive is that he has a "hero complex", plain and simple. Cliched? Maybe, but it's pretty straightforward. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Yes, but what is he hoping to get out of it is the question I'm asking. You say his motive is to be the hero. In that case, if that's it, then that makes Kirito's entire character arc of learning to appreciate people moot because he never has to learn the lesson in the first place. Actually, what sort of lesson is Kirito supposed to learn, anyway? I don't know. Also, if he does have a hero complex, then it sure doesn't hinder him in any significant way except to create cheap angst and give a reason for cute girls to fall all over him. Addendum: You know what's weird? I can barely remember a single line that was uttered throughout SAO's first season. I can recall about three or four memorable quotes, and most of them are from the first two episodes. Several pieces of dialogue from Evangelion or Code Geass or Madoka Magica have made it into the anime fandom's consciousness, but SAO? For something so widely seen and discussed, you tend not to see a lot of quotes from it floating around the interwebs. This is just something really odd that I've noticed. Last edited by Akane the Catgirl on Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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