Forum - View topicINTEREST: Animator Supporters Project Posts Toshio Okada's Criticisms of Production Committee System
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
MCAL
Posts: 182 |
|
|||
|
As soon as animators even try to think about collective bargaining or what have you, productions committes will do everything in their power to make sure they can never work again, so all these arguements for it kind of fall flat on their face just by thinking about it for more then one second?
|
||||
|
||||
xxmsxx
 Posts: 575 |
|
|||
Isn't it because even though the pay is completely unfair, they love the drawing/animating itself? The turnover rate in the industry is extremely high, most people cannot sustain the extremely high stress/workload. If you stick around despite the terrible condition, you have accepted that this the pay you are getting. In order to fight the low pay and fight hard, they have truly believe they are doing something a lot more valuable and should be paid a lot higher. "Industry standard pay" is only industry standard because they have been made to believe this is what they will be paid with and because they love what they do, they should just suck it up? I think an underline problem is that everyone knows it is low pay, but has already accepted that this is the system that they have to work with. They believe this is the best they will get. One thing I believe the video really highlighted is the "collusion" component. On the very top, there really isn't that many people making the decision. It is the same big company that are investing into the TV broadcast/toy production/CD production etc. They are stuck in their mindset about how budgets work. So even when more money pours in, they have absolutely no incentive to change their way of work. They still make all the money they want. It is quite clear the solution is two-pronged. Targeting the top and the bottom at the same time. Collective bargaining is very important, but the PCs are very stubborn, they are not just gonna concede just because the workers demand better pay across the entire industry. They will need to be restrained too. |
||||
|
||||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
|
|||
Yeah, no doubt before every successful labor movement in history, there were people who said, "hey this is too risky and will never work, let's give up." Fortunately, those people were ignored and workers got better pay and conditions. Having said that, so far it seems Japanese animators are more in line with your way of thinking than mine which, sadly, means they will probably continue to make crap money. |
||||
|
||||
|
MCAL
Posts: 182 |
|
|||
|
No one's saying that. Just pointing out the flaws in your logic that the production committees are somehow the victims here that will magnomiously start treating animators right because they uttered the word union.
But hey, if you want to tell the oppressed that their the ones at fault, be my guest. |
||||
|
||||
|
DRosencraft
Posts: 666 |
|
|||
Which is again what makes much of this all moot. If the people involved aren't going to make the effort on their behalf, if they aren't going to be the ones to make the push to improve their own standing when they're the ones with skin in the game, why would any of the money folks bother listening to anyone else? Your assertion that the animators know and accept how things are is precisely the argument the companies have made and will continue to make - they get paid enough because they know and accept what we're paying them. Where exactly is the pressure going to come from that will force a change if not the workers themselves? Even the idea that somehow production committees might be a form of collusion that should be outlawed, who is going to pressure the law to make that assertion? You think the committees aren't going to lobby heavily to avoid that? And say the committee system is terminated, do we really think any, let alone most, of those entities is going to singularly put forth the type of funding needed for a full seasonal anime production? They're likely not going to pay anyone anything extra, using the change in the funding system to claim erosion of profits. You'll see a fraction of the production volume, and that will mean just as many if not more animators, and a lot of other people associated with producing an anime (folks that are being entirely left out of this discussion), out of a job. Yes, they are the victims. But if they don't stand up and do anything for themselves, they will keep being victims and never gain anything except whatever these companies are willing to dish out to keep them placated - which at the moment isn't much. |
||||
|
||||
TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5876 Location: Virginia, United States |
|
|||
Yes, you are right, but no one wants to be a mole, in a game of Wack-a-Mole, either. No one wants to lose their dream career because they stood up and were crushed under foot. Now this is more subjective and up for discussion, but even if they cobbled themselves together, couldn't the production committees just outsource the animation overseas. Waiting out the talent till they fold, or new blood comes in to take their jobs. I don't really know, but maybe a question for Justin Sevakis. |
||||
|
||||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
|
|||
Saying that I implied production committees are victims is an absurd strawman argument and implying that I think they'd buckle immediately at the threat of collective bargaining is inaccurate. I don't think the effort to organize and negotiate would be easy. I do think it would be worthwhile and possibly successful. So I won't tell the animators that they are the ones at fault (I already admitted my initial post was cheeky) but I will tell them that collectively they might hold the key to forcing change. You on the other hand seem in favour of assuring them that such an effort is pointless and doomed which, imo, seems to be a recipe for keeping the low pay status quo in place. |
||||
|
||||
|
@ASAnime6
Posts: 389 |
|
|||
|
this new anime making system seems to be a reliable solution , I mean if things kept getting successes, eventually it would be a whole committee with better conditions ig
|
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group