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INTEREST: Mushoku Tensei Author Comments on Series' Depiction of Slavery

There's the example of the people who created "educational videos" that were recently approved for use in grade school classes (K-6) in Florida. Referenced Article
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Rudy had been a human piece of garbage for about 20 or so years before being squashed like an overripe tomato, then went through socialization again on a different world.... and this is the kicker, got dumped in a wasteland halfway across the world and had to make his way back home with Eris and Ruijerd through multiple different cultures, explicitly serving as the peacemaker of the group. That Rudy would be able to tolerate even extreme cultural differences from a society he was barely a part of thirty-plus years ago is I think well justified.

Granted, it might also be just a coincidence, and "buy a slave" was just another trope on the checklist to mark off. I'm only saying that it fits, and is not out of character for him. I also can't think of anything later that takes advantage of this being identified as part of his character now. As far as I can remember, it's gratuitous.

2-2Distracted wrote:

If he simply liked it, he wouldn't try to constant make excuses for why he likes it. It gives off the impression that he's being facetious when he's trying to tell a serious story.

He gave a description of Rudy's train of thought and why he acted as he did. I don't see that as an excuse.

2-2Distracted wrote:

That's the thing tho isn't? Rudeus actual Has grown to respect the bodily autonomy of women, just look at the sex scene at the end season 1- wherein he's gone from seeing Eris as an object to get him off to recognizing where her head is at, sympathizing with her emotions and overall actually Not trying sleep with her because of how depressed she actually is.

I'd say the lesson he learned there was that if a girl that can kick his ass dresses in lingerie and comes to his bed, he should let her take the initiative because he's not getting laid otherwise. And he learned that lesson then, in episode 8, and yet continued to peep/grope/etc. and generally be a sex pest to her. I mean, he wouldn't exactly be unusual for a molester to be rationalizing his actions as just "harmless" touching...

Arguably it's the same as a male lead copping a feel when he trips in a lucky sukebe event, or one girl feeling up another's boobs when they're in the bath together, just without the transparent (and increasingly futile) framing to make it less creepy...


Point is, no, I don't think he learned the lesson you think he did.

Shield Hero was practically roasted week after week when it was airing because fans of the work, and the work itself, tried & failed to argue with nonsensical in-universe reasons for why things work the way they do, ESPECIALLY when it came to how tried it to handwave why it was okay for the main character to have slaves in his party.

Mushoku Tensei isn't unique in this & honestly speaking it deserves to have have this happen to it as well, especially when the author won't shut up about his poor writing choices on Twitter.

the idea that writers should be mocked or made fun of for thinking about world building and consistency seems really weird

2-2Distracted wrote:

Shield Hero was practically roasted week after week when it was airing because fans of the work, and the work itself, tried & failed to argue with nonsensical in-universe reasons for why things work the way they do, ESPECIALLY when it came to how tried it to handwave why it was okay for the main character to have slaves in his party. Mushoku Tensei isn't unique in this & honestly speaking it deserves to have have this happen to it as well, especially when the author won't shut up about his poor writing choices on Twitter.

What is the "this" that is happening to it, exactly? Do you think complaining on an internet forum is doing some kind of damage to the show or something? I hope that's not what's going on here. Do you not realize how popular those two series are in particular?

The "Thermian Argument" was just something a YouTube made up to complain about anime like Goblin Slayer having content he didn't like in it. It's not an actual thing. It's completely meaningless. And frankly, the idea that writers should be mocked or made fun of for thinking about world building and consistency seems really weird. But I realize it's mostly done so detractors can have their way and force creators to do what they want since that's the only argument a lot of people can put forward on why a creator should listen to them.

This is not an idea anyone has expressed. Literally no one. Nothing even remotely resembling this has ever been conveyed. You could, in fact, pore over this entire thread, emphasizing even the least coherent posts, and you would find nothing like it. It is amazing to me that you somehow still took it away as your summary of that conversation.

Meanwhile you have writers like Yoko Taro and the creator of Redo of a Healer who just flat out said that they wrote their respective nonsensical situations because they simply wanted to, with the former explaining that the reason 2B/9S/A2/YorHa bots are dressed the way they are is because he liked it, and as for the latter the reason Redo is so trashy is because the author wanted to take all of his teenage edge-phase ideas and pour it all into a single work in order to basically get it all out of his system.

2-2Distracted wrote:

Meanwhile you have writers like Yoko Taro and the creator of Redo of a Healer who just flat out said that they wrote their respective nonsensical situations because they simply wanted to, with the former explaining that the reason 2B/9S/A2/YorHa bots are dressed the way they are is because he liked it, and as for the latter the reason Redo is so trashy is because the author wanted to take all of his teenage edge-phase ideas and pour it all into a single work in order to basically get it all out of his system.

Or Uchikoshi, like I mentioned last week on page 19. I remember Caitlin Moore talked some last year about how his honesty, and Yoko Taro's, makes it more palatable than the Quiet thing, or other cases of "the internal logic of this world I constructed compelled me to, it wasn't me being weird at all". (I think Alice VLR's getup has a canon explanation of "it's because nobody would expect someone dressed like that to be what she really is", though. Which yeah, makes it dumber.)

But people still complain about Redo of Healer, Yoko Taro, and all those other things. A creator being "honest" has never stopped people from attacking them or have people wanting stuff they don't like to just not exist.

But to imply they're being dishonest by putting some kind of explanation for something and are only trying to cover up some kind of ulterior motive of theirs is a very bad faith reading.

I didn't know people were still upset by Quiet almost 10 years later, but I guess some people still are? Kojima saying a woman breathing through her skin so she has to have it exposed doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

The same reason Momo's hero outfit also shows a lot of skin since she needs to create her weapons from it. They both make perfect sense and it's such a simple, easy explanation that I can't see what's worth getting upset over.

This characterization of him being some kind of social pariah or industry laughingstock for his innocuous explanation of Quiet makes no sense to me.

The Thermian Argument isn't even something new but it IS indeed a thing, since I literally pointed out that it's just a variation of the "Watsonian vs Doylist" argument, something so common even the late Terry Pratchett knew about it when he was in the middle of his Discworld novels. Hell, it's something even Tolkien knew about and got tired of dealing with whenever someone would ask why about the Eagles in LOTR.

2-2Distracted wrote:

The Thermian Argument isn't even something new but it IS indeed a thing, since I literally pointed out that it's just a variation of the "Watsonian vs Doylist" argument, something so common even the late Terry Pratchett knew about it when he was in the middle of his Discworld novels. Hell, it's something even Tolkien knew about and got tired of dealing with whenever someone would ask why about the Eagles in LOTR.

Tolkien is probably not the best example to use since the man was very meticulous on the worldbuilding to the point he created an entire written and spoken language and had tomes of notes and scriptures detailing the history of the world. If something happened in-universe then there was probably a reason for it. I'll always value in-universe explanations over an author just handwaving away something. Of course I'm assume we're being reasonable here and speaking in good faith and not talking about a case of people nitpicking obvious jokes and suspension of disbeliefs like how Batman can have a credit card under his Batman name being unrealistic and we're instead speaking strictly of plot holes and world building. Batman not liking guns because his parents were killed by one is a perfectly reasonable explanation I can get behind and appreciate more than a writer just saying it would be too easy if Batman could just shoot people to death and win every fight, even if both explanations are true. That's the difference between a good writer and a bad one.

I agree with you but that of course gets into the thick of things then. Tolkien was indeed incredibly meticulous but at the same time there is literally audio file of him telling his readers to shut the hell up about the eagles due to how many people don't buy the explanation(s) that has been showcased throughout the entire trilogy and due to how their arrival just sticks out like a sore thumb. It's nigh perfect story with a questionable ending. Bring it up now in the Fandom and watch the fireworks go off.

2-2Distracted wrote:

I agree with you but that of course gets into the thick of things then. Tolkien was indeed incredibly meticulous but at the same time there is literally audio file of him telling his readers to shut the hell up about the eagles due to how many people don't buy the explanation(s) that has been showcased throughout the entire trilogy and due to how their arrival just sticks out like a sore thumb. It's nigh perfect story with a questionable ending. Bring it up now in the Fandom and watch the fireworks go off.

At the risk of driving this thread too off-topic, the "Tolkien audio" you're citing is fake, a joke done by someone impersonating Tolkien's voice. Tolkien was the type to write a lengthy letter to someone addressing their questions about his writing, not give a short quip and leave it at that. Also, the "Eagle question" being referred to is the age-old chestnut "Why didn't they simply fly into Mordor?", not the times when the Eagles were actually used. (Also there's no reason for "fireworks" about those instances, as there are very clear thematic reasons for how and why they're used, but that would be way too off-topic so I won't bore the class with details.)

I didn't know people were still upset by Quiet almost 10 years later, but I guess some people still are?

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This characterization of him being some kind of social pariah or industry laughingstock for his innocuous explanation of Quiet makes no sense to me.