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INTEREST: Hideaki Anno Voices His Concerns About the Anime Industry


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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2404
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:09 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
(there is some risk aversion in the Gundam universe for producing original content because Gunpla's are big conservative regions in Asia)


I'm not really sure that is true. AU Gundams are quite different from one another. UC ones are a lot more similar, but then again those are direct sequels so you would expect that. I mean sure looking at gundam compared to the variety of anime in general, they may look similar. But there needs to be a certain amount of similarity for it to feel authentically like a gundam series and not just a mech series.
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Anti_Nadalista



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:14 am Reply with quote
The problems in anime are:

Bad pay for animators

Terrible schedules to produce their shows

Terrible screenwriters

Homogeneous art design

Annoying western fans

Annoying and pretentious directors





Mamoru Hosoda is the only one doing the things right as a director and Kyoani is the best managing the schedule in a show. it's sad that nobody has found the solution for the screenwriters yet.
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:14 am Reply with quote
I respect Miyazaki even if I don't completely agree with his opinion on the current anime industry. Anno on the other hand? Never respected him. Complete hack. I mean, if Evangelion 3.0 was meant to be an example of what he wants other anime to do I'm more than okay with my commercialised garbage.

I'm not even going to start on how much of a hypocrite he is for saying such a thing.
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:22 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Says the guy who keeps making the same one story over and over again, with diminishing returns.

What? he's only remade Evangelion once.

walw6pK4lo wrote:
They certainly do try new things. Those things just bomb horribly and can either send a studio into debt if not shut it down outright, or they'll make the studio reconsider what they should be working on.

And this is why I agree with Anno. Whenever a studio or someone tries something new, it usually bombs and we're back to recycling the same stories, tropes, etc. over and over again. I'm exaggerating a little here, since we are getting some original shows, but it's difficult to make a show nowadays that isn't based on a light novel, manga, game, or some existing IP.

asdqweiop wrote:
I don't think (as others have rightly pointed out) that Anno,...take issue with the commercial exploitation of their creations. What they're objecting to is the limits/restraints on their creative freedom that they feel in the production process as a result from having to bend to input of the diverse and risk-averse committee members.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Everybody calling Anno a hypocrite is missing the point. Getting money from something you already made is not the same as getting money to make a show. Anno is commenting on the latter, not the former, but some people are confusing it for the other way around.


SilverTalon01 wrote:
I think this is just a case of rose tinted glasses. I mean this whole 'anime was so much better in the 90s' thing, is that really true? I've been watching anime since gundam W first aired on toonami, and I can't even think of a couple dozen from the 90s that I think are amazing... If I actually sat there and counted from everything I've seen, I'd probably pull a comparable or larger number from 04-13 as I would from 90-99.

The issue really isn't about whether it's good or not, it's more about having creative freedom. Obviously, the fans/viewers will decide the quality after it comes out. The big difference for me was the OVA market from that time. OVAs were the one area where creators had a little more freedom. In fact, I doubt many of the OVAs from the 80's/90's would ever get made today because most of them wouldn't fit current trends. Since everything is either TV or movie now, production committees have more control than ever. It's really too bad that OVAs nowadays are basically just bonus episodes for the TV show.

Joe Mello wrote:
There has to be some middle ground. I can understand concerns about strictly going for profit margin, but I also don't think you can get away with 100% unrestricted creative freedom. At the end of the day, we're talking about commercial art, and the good works tend to satisfy both halves of that term.

Completely agree, as configspace said, I don't just want all experimental stuff or all trending stuff, I want diversity above all else. Since we're talking about Anno here, ironically, Evangelion is one of few shows that became a landmark anime as result of all its issues during production.
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Kaioshin_Sama



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1215
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:37 am Reply with quote
Anti_Nadalista wrote:
The problems in anime are:

Bad pay for animators

Terrible schedules to produce their shows

Terrible screenwriters

Homogeneous art design

Annoying western fans

Annoying and pretentious directors

Mamoru Hosoda is the only one doing the things right as a director and Kyoani is the best managing the schedule in a show. it's sad that nobody has found the solution for the screenwriters yet.


Yeah all of those are pretty huge problems. Just too touch on each:

- Animators apparently make on average about a 100,000 yen a year salary or about $925 a month. That's also while averaging between 400-600 hours of work a month or between 12-20 hours a day. Who would ever want to work that job when it comes time to hire new animators knowing that? Apparently A-1 Pictures the subsidiary company of Aniplex was cited as a company closer to the 600 hour model and was nominated for a Black Company award in Japan which is given to companies considered to have particularly bad policies overall.

- It's not always that way but more that sometimes too much work is taken on and companies fall behind schedule. Again to cite A-1 Pictures they've been averaging about 4 new TV series a season for about a month now (You can see how they tilt toward 600 hours a month) and just this past weekend one of their directors for Shigatsu no Kimi no Uso said they'd just finished animating that weeks episode which would give them just 12 days to make sure the next episode would be ready for the coming week after. I don't even those people with that kind of pressure hanging over them.

- When the best writers you have available primarily seem to have come out of a visual novel market or are all kind of odd eccentrics (more on that later) to put it nicely I really don't think it bodes well for your ability to generate new content. It also doesn't help that a lot of ideas for anime primarily come from the Light Novel market now which is kind of best described as pulp fiction.

- I'm not really sure homogenous art design is actually all that big a problem though I have noticed this strange attempt of late to create these hyper realistic backgrounds usually taken from real life locations and digitized into animated backdrops that don't really look like the characters could possibly belong in and populate and thus kind of somehow artificial.

- My experience is that all fandoms are kind of terrible. I could go on for a while about how I figure a combination of fan gullibility and savvy industry marketing and hype being focused on exploiting it being a whole problem in and of itself that is IMO lowering standards for what are supposed to be seen as the defining shows of this generation of anime but that's a whole other topic in and of itself.

- I feel it's more that the wrong directors are being rewarded for their commercialism and lack of any real effort beyond working a particular style or schtick ahead of the directors that truly go out with a vision to create something that will stand the test of time. When someone like Akiyuki Shinbo who is on record as starting that his interest lies in creating works that will sell well and please producers while keeping costs down is considered among the upper echelon of anime directors while the likes of Satoshi Kon or Masaaki Yuasa, and Mamoru Ooshi either die off, remain largely unknown or can't get funded respectively I think it points to a noteworthy creative crisis.
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Nonaka Machine Gun B



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 819
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:40 am Reply with quote
I love his quote from that Eva psuedo-doc many years ago. It went along the lines of "by the time I was 12 years old, I couldn't watch anime anymore. How do they come up with this stupid shit?" Just curmudegony goodness.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2404
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:40 am Reply with quote
CoreSignal wrote:
The issue really isn't about whether it's good or not, it's more about having creative freedom. Obviously, the fans/viewers will decide the quality after it comes out. The big difference for me was the OVA market from that time. OVAs were the one area where creators had a little more freedom. In fact, I doubt many of the OVAs from the 80's/90's would ever get made today because most of them wouldn't fit current trends. Since everything is either TV or movie now, production committees have more control than ever. It's really too bad that OVAs nowadays are basically just bonus episodes for the TV show.


But thats not really the case. As said in the answerman column, japanese producers don't usually interfere so they aren't all that likely to limit the creative freedom of their staff.

Media in general is someone pitching an idea to some one else that has the ability to fund it (granted sometimes people fund their own stuff). Unless you can think of some magical way that some one with an idea can fund their own anime, it will always come down to selling the pitch to the guy with the funds. It isn't a problem of production committees actively doing things. It is a problem of the guys with the ideas usually don't have the money too so they have to convince some one to give it to them.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:08 am Reply with quote
Well, there is the aforementioned Mel Gibson example, but he had to spend decades under the thumbs of other people, some pleasant and some not so pleasant, in order to do so. And then his public image was ruined.

mdo7 wrote:
This seem to applied to anime, so a production with people with no film school or art school experience is never good IMO, because they don't know how to express creativity or think like an artist, it hampers creativity and development in anime.


Problem is this: People with a background in both business AND film or art are incredibly hard to find, and people good at both even more so. Because they have very different ways of thinking, you rarely ever have someone be interested in both, and when someone is, they tend to be much better at one than the other.

At my university, and at the universities of some other people I've known, at least, the film majors and art majors are at odds with the business majors. The film and art majors say the business majors have no heart, and the business majors say the film and art majors have no brains.

If that's indicative of the working world as a whole too, then until you can find that person in the intersection of the two lines of thinking, you'll have to make do with a studio whose business department is made up mostly of people with no knowledge nor interest in consuming whatever the studio makes.

Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
I think that's what he's talking about. Basically under this model only 4-5 large companies primarily with commercial rather than artistic considerations in mind dictate pretty much all the content that gets made with them being the only ones really in a position and willing to fund it. Bandai Namco Holdings, Aniplex/Sony Music Entertainment, Kadokawa Shoten, TV Tokyo and Funimation are typically the regulars. You don't get a hit anime franchise/adaptation or for the most part even an anime at all without going through at least one of these companies first and likely giving them the right to take the biggest cut anymore. It brings up the image of the robber barons of the early 1910's when monopolies were totally an okay and transparent thing before anti-trust law temporarily put a stop to them.


We're at the point where FUNimation is one of the big sponsors of anime shows? I didn't know they were that influential.

That kind of system actually reminds me more of how scientific research these days is influenced by funding by special interest groups and corporations that want to skew the results in their favor. (But that's a discussion for another time.)
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:14 am Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
It's too bad the world will never see your anime masterpiece.
If I had the resources I could make something better written than 3.0 pretty easily. Hell, most people probably could. Just make sure the character's motivations make sense at least half of the time, create a story that's at least somewhat cohesive and don't blatantly make use of retcon to force a shift in tone and that's about a 3/10 already in my books. That's one point above what I'd give to 3.0
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:46 am Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
But thats not really the case. As said in the answerman column, japanese producers don't usually interfere so they aren't all that likely to limit the creative freedom of their staff.

Media in general is someone pitching an idea to some one else that has the ability to fund it (granted sometimes people fund their own stuff). Unless you can think of some magical way that some one with an idea can fund their own anime, it will always come down to selling the pitch to the guy with the funds. It isn't a problem of production committees actively doing things. It is a problem of the guys with the ideas usually don't have the money too so they have to convince some one to give it to them.


Yeah, everyone seems to be approaching this topic like the production committees are scuzzy Hollywood execs who want everything changed to reflect some focus group's complaints when creator autonomy usually seems to be intact. Everyone also conveniently forgets that we do routinely get original shows that are fantastic, you just can't have 40 of them every single season.

Even if you toss in some western-aimed crowdfunding, you're now asking for fans to raise a few million per show, sight unseen, which might not air for years. How many of those can go up simultaneously and not interfere with each other?

Also brings me to why original OVAs are diminished, because the late night model succeeded it. The 2AM airings act as infomercials for the discs so that fans can sample before dropping a lot of money. Prior to that shift in the industry, they were hoping you'd buy the first episode of an OVA, again sight unseen, and then proceed to buy more of it. Now the trend is just to ignore that kind of format altogether and aim for movie serials to maximize profits and exposure. Yamato 2199 is probably the best example because it was even produced as 26 OVA episodes, but they were stitched together and run in theaters before the discs were available, and then they ran it on TV just for good measure.
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:04 am Reply with quote
Wow, it's really crazy to see so much hate for Anno considering there was an article just a few days ago about how making Evangelion made him suicidal & depressed. Has any even considered that maybe he wanted to redo Evangelion because he wasn't satisfied with how the original turned out? Or that maybe he felt no one understood what he was trying to say? I mean, essentially at the end of the TV series the Japanese fans sent him death threats and demanded for him to make a satisfying ending, I don't think that's a secret Sad

I doubt he's doing it entirely for money. He's one of the most respected talents in the industry, he could write his own ticket pretty much anywhere. Has anyone ever considered that, like Miyazaki & Tomino, he's getting older and is generally concerned about the direction that his country and his industry is headed? None of us on this forum has or ever will have to deal with the kind of pressures and expectations placed on Anno's shoulders. If we're honest with ourselves, we have a hard enough time keeping our heads above water and supporting ourselves and the people who count on us. It's really easy to throw flippant insults on the guy when we'll never have to know what it's like being him.
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Ugoki



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:09 am Reply with quote
Fedora-san wrote:
Name your favorite anime and I guarantee it would not have been made under the proposal you are suggesting. No doubt foreign committees would consider it too violent, too sexual, too esoteric, or if nothing else "too Japanese".


Ahahaha, good joke. My favorite anime is of the WMT series.
Razz
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Broly The Saiyan



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 111
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:17 am Reply with quote
lets be honest anime is not dead saying that is bs their are some really good anime that have and will come out great ones or good ones that came out are tokyo ghoul, akame ga kill, no game no life, and many others. great ones to come are aldnoah zero, kuruko no basket, and so on. the point is you and i both know that anime is not dead its brought at least a few good and great anime each season what it comes down to is how picky you are , your standards, genres you like and such.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4478
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:47 am Reply with quote
It's not like "commercial considerations" are unique to anime, or that the results are entirely negative. Hollywood studios constantly use the money from blockbusters to help fund prestige movies that won't make much money, even if they win an Oscar. The same thing seems to apply to anime. How many sponsors would be willing to fund low-seller after low-seller without a big shonen title or whatever under their belt?

If there were fewer sponsors because there wasn't any commercial consideration, we would obviously have very few of the more "arsty" anime being made, and what are the odds that most of those would actually be good? If the current system means that the committees have enough money that they are willing to gamble more often on art projects, then that isn't so bad.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:52 am Reply with quote
He's putting the cart before the horse. The kinds of anime he says shouldn't be made are made because that's what people want to buy.
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