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Agent355 wrote:

I'm ashamed of this country's inability to acknowledge the atrocities its official policies wrought on people. National pride should be based as much as on how a country responds to its sins to how many "good deeds" it does, but apparently, that's a "left wing" opinion.

Not everybody agrees about what counts as a sin, though. The most obvious example is nuking Japan: some say it needs an official apology, while the more mainstream opinion is that it was a wartime necessity.

Compelled to Reply wrote:

It's the political elite completely out of touch with people and/or influenced by external forces.

The biggest supporters of open borders have a bad tendency to be rich people living in gated communities. The proles might get hit with terrorism and unemployment, but they have no such concerns.

I will be honest here: I wish we had not developed the atomic bomb and dropped it on Japan. So many lives lost/damaged that had their futures taken or hurt because of this. It was a massacre or close to it.
t

Kadmos1 wrote:

I will be honest here: I wish we had not developed the atomic bomb and dropped it on Japan. So many lives lost/damaged that had their futures taken or hurt because of this. It was a massacre or close to it.
t

Then perhaps you can tell us what we should've done instead.

There are enough historian opinions suggesting that using an atomic bomb may not have been absolutely necessary and was done only to: A. Test it out B. (Most importantly) intimidate the Soviet Union to make me think that the Japanese weren't as opposed to surrendering as other historians claim. In any case, using *two* in less than a week always seemed so incredibly excessive to me. No one had the time to properly asses the damage to Hiroshima before they went ahead and bombed Nagasaki. This was a brand new type of bomb that we were vaguely aware might have extreme long term consequences. People were dropping like flies from radiation poisoning, and we all know *now* that the effects would linger for decades and generations, but then we couldn't be sure what would happen and barely waited around to find out. I just have a hard time believing that after a years long war, America couldn't hold back a second bombing for a week or two and let the damage sink in before deciding that they still wouldn't surrender and another bombing was absolutely necessary. America, most likely, didn't give a damn about Japanese civilians or long term effects. They just wanted to play with their new toys and show Russia who's boss. And that's indefensible.

TL;DR: The first bomb *may* have been necessary, the second bomb was probably not necessary so soon after the first one.

Lord Oink wrote:

Every country did those sorts of things in war.

Not literally every country and not necessarily without reason. You got fight a war somewhere especially when the country you're invading did something ill advised leading to the invasion in the first place, like Germany and Japan.

Lord Oink wrote:

You say anything slightly negative and you get smacked with the Islamophobe label and torn apart.

Stereotyping muslims as terrorists, telling them to go back to their own country (even when they're native citizens or legal immigrants), or singling out Islam as a violent religion, isn't "slightly" negative it's full blown negative. On that note why would anyone resort to saying something "slightly" negative about a group of people (especially when not warranted), then get incredulous at pushback over it?

Lord Oink wrote:

Meanwhile people can casually make jokes like 'two bombs werent enough' about the Japanese or negative generalizations about Japanese culture as a whole and the same people don't even blink.

Those kind of comments which I've seen aren't something that get no criticism but ultimately it's something you can't stop people from doing because some people are buttholes who have no grasp on humor.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

Kadmos1 wrote:

I will be honest here: I wish we had not developed the atomic bomb and dropped it on Japan. So many lives lost/damaged that had their futures taken or hurt because of this. It was a massacre or close to it.
t

Then perhaps you can tell us what we should've done instead.

Proceed with Operation Downfall....?

L'Imperatore wrote:

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

Kadmos1 wrote:

I will be honest here: I wish we had not developed the atomic bomb and dropped it on Japan. So many lives lost/damaged that had their futures taken or hurt because of this. It was a massacre or close to it.
t

Then perhaps you can tell us what we should've done instead.

Proceed with Operation Downfall....?

Which would've lead the the deaths of tens of thousands (or more) of Americans? That doesn't seem like a reasonable solution.

My Dad died from cancers brought on by post-war testing of the atomic bomb. U.S. Navy warships would go through areas of immediate atomic explosions to test personnel and equipment survivability. Seen plenty of videos of Army personnel doing the same thing on the ground. It was years before everyone understood the long term damage.

People today will have a hard time understanding the wartime generation of World War II. Even Vietnam didn't have the impact that World War II had on the United States. People were tired of the war and wanted it over, which is probably why we didn't go to war against the Soviet Union when the Iron Curtain came down.

There is probably some truth to the United States posturing before the Soviet Union and the military playing with a new toy. But the main reason was to save American and Allied lives, not to mention Japanese lives too, but that was probably a bit down the list.

If the bombs were not dropped and the invasion of mainland Japan proceeded the same way it had on Okinawa, the cost to the Japanese civilians would have been far much higher. The Japanese for the most part would have fought till the last man, and the civilians would be killing themselves and their children before the 'evil' Americans could get them. But to reiterate, the main reason was to save American and Allied lives.

In our semi peaceful lives today it is hard to see the necessities that total war brings. The United States and the world has not seen total war since World War II. Total War changes all rules, even ones that seem sacrosanct today.

SquadmemberRitsu wrote:

They're kinda like that new brand of nazis in the US. Just like them, they seem to get really mad when people accuse them of being racists. Usually after they said something racist.

Ehm, mister, time to get over the election there, you hear? I'm not even American, but even we outsiders are tired of this rhetoric. It especially becomes a bore every time someone gets called a "racist sexist pig" when they bring up statistics or factual information. I think this election was the first time the rest of the world wasn't cheering for the democrats, so just stop it, please.

Crext wrote:

It especially becomes a bore every time someone gets called a "racist sexist pig" when they bring up statistics or factual information.

Which almost never happens and is just people parroting questionable stuff they've gleamed from dubious sources.

Crext wrote:

I think this election was the first time the rest of the world wasn't cheering for the democrats,

.....Ummmmm that's not a good thing given the Xenophobia that played a significant role in the Brexit vote and some of the elections in Europe, along with our own. As for the rest of the world not cheering for democrats they weren't exactly cheering for Republicans either and presently aren't exactly high on Trump do this his lack of decorum and common sense.

BadNewsBlues wrote:

Crext wrote:

It especially becomes a bore every time someone gets called a "racist sexist pig" when they bring up statistics or factual information.

Which almost never happens and is just people parroting questionable stuff they've gleamed from dubious sources.

If you are not 100% onboard with the progressive liberal agenda that is what you get. Smart people just stay away from dangerous topics, for fear of being hammered.

BadNewsBlues wrote:

Crext wrote:

I think this election was the first time the rest of the world wasn't cheering for the democrats,

.....Ummmmm that's not a good thing given the Xenophobia that played a significant role in the Brexit vote and some of the elections in Europe, along with our own. As for the rest of the world not cheering for democrats they weren't exactly cheering for Republicans either and presently aren't exactly high on Trump do this his lack of decorum and common sense.

Trump wasn't elected to be a smiling clone of every other politician. So it goes with the territory.

TarsTarkas wrote:

If you are not 100% onboard with the progressive liberal agenda that is what you get. Smart people just stay away from dangerous topics, for fear of being hammered.

You're more likely to get that though if you're subscribing to a particular view but can't justifiably back it up or ignore the ramifications of certain "acts" under the naive pretense there's nothing wrong with them.

Like many of these Voter ID laws that supposedly exist to stop rampant voting fraud.

TarsTarkas wrote:

Trump wasn't elected to be a smiling clone of every other politician. So it goes with the territory.

Makes sense when you see how fake his smiles are.

If you had any self awareness, you would realize that acting like slapping a label on someone is an argument was a major contributor to Trump's victory. To use your example, calling people "xenophobic bigots" because they want the law enforced doesn't exactly win you any friends.

Polycell wrote:

If you had any self awareness, you would realize that acting like slapping a label on someone is an argument was a major contributor to Trump's victory.

Of all the reasons Trump won between the gerrymandering and fearmongering of Republicans, shoddy media reporting that didn't even bother to compare and contrast the differences between both candidates, misinformation campaigns, a naive voting base etc. That wasn't nowhere near a big deal.

Polycell wrote:

To use your example, calling people "xenophobic bigots" because they want the law enforced doesn't exactly win you any friends.

....When you believe that immigrants are responsible for most of the serious crimes being committed in a country instead of the people who were born here or think that Muslims (or Sikhs) or gay/transgender people are somehow more of a threat to this country than Christian Fundamentalists and Evangelicals wanting to ban or restrict abortion, violate the separation of church and state clause of the constitution, and privatize the school system.

Don't be too surprised if you get called out for parroting nonsense that's makes you look every bit of the homophobe/transphobe, Islamaphobe, Xenaphobe that ironically you don't want to be labeled as. As for wanting laws enforced that's a pretty interesting argument when you apply it to something like say gun control reform which many people on both sides want but comically many other people don't want done.

As you can see, we don't live in a world where we can discuss things like this anymore.

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