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AsuraTheDestructor
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 470
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:13 am
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| penguintruth wrote: | | Kale is already a superior Broly than Broly, we don't need him back. At least Kale has a personality and motivation. I mean, it's mostly just "I hope senpai will notice me!" but that's better than "RAWR I ANGRY BECAUSE OTHER BABY CRY WHEN I BABY. SMASH!" |
Toriyama himself is handling the character and has stated that he's found a way to make him work better then just what you have stated, dude.
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anddo
Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Posts: 670
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:21 am
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| penguintruth wrote: | | There's already been three, THREE Broly movies. Ample opportunity to make him interesting. They failed all three times. |
All three times being written by the same guy (who is not Toriyama), all in the timespan of ONE YEAR (LSSB released 1993, Bio-Broly 1994). There are many variables you're willingly choosing to ignore.
It's been 24 YEARS since the last attempt at Broly who was only a concept over the span of three quickly released movies. Your rhetoric doesn't hold up when considering they've had all this time to fully flesh out the character for a brand new film being made by literally the best animators in history, by the creator of Dragon Ball himself. You're going into this movie with a serious confirmation bias with baseless complaints.
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LokiReed
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 136
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:55 pm
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Makes sense, seeing how Kale is basically the Broly of universe 6.... and both universes are parallel to one another.
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louis6578
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1868
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:09 pm
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| penguintruth wrote: | | Utterly sickening. Broly is the worst thing to happen to this franchise. A less charismatic villain I cannot recall. And his fans... the less said, the better. |
There's nothing much to add here, but if they're rewriting Broly to be an ACTUAL character, this could potentially be interesting. Of course, you'd have to ignore the fact that it makes no sense for some random saiyan to be THIS powerful and never once have shown up on the radar.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6043
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:13 pm
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| Somer-_- wrote: | |
Those guys were great. Red especially. |
Sure if you ignore how rather shallow two of them were and ignore how Red for being (the original villain) of the Red Ribbon Army arc came off as less important than his underlings.
| CycloneJoker wrote: | |
Gotenks isn't even that bad. He's a gag character |
Yes and that's precisely the reason he's awful.
| AiddonValentine wrote: | |
The only thing that intrigues me is that Toriyama is saying "Yeah, I'm pretty much rewriting him." My hope is that Toriyama makes essentially an entirely new character, making him actually have a personality or decent motivation. |
He'll give him personality (probably), a meaningful motivation that's more than just wanting to conquer the world/universe, wanting immortality, or just being an engine of destruction and chaos which is how Toriyama wrote a lot of his villains in DragonBall?
I don't know.
| #810704 wrote: | | This^ freaking this. The fact that this key point goes over so many people’s heads is baffling to me. This is the first Broly movie actually written by Toriyama, not the usual hacks. |
Toriyama was the same guy that wrote the main villain of one of his arcs as wanting to use the dragonballs not for power, not for evil, but for making himself taller. Then basically had the guy's second in command shoot him for his bullshit.
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AyanamiRei
Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 87
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:35 am
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It's good to recognize Toriyama in this statement. I loved the "I am told I designed the character". It's so him. ^^
But... why are people here branding the "the mangaka is writing the script of this original movie" promotional argument like it was the St Graal? Especially when we all know that it goes nowhere beyond a simple first draft that is rewritten by people who know how to handle a movie (even if only a few authors have had the audacity to criticize the final product). And even if we took all those words for pure truth, in this special case, toriyama isn't the kind of guarantee to be valuable when it's: about scenario, about something connected to an old work of him, etc.
| penguintruth wrote: | | A less charismatic villain I cannot recall. And his fans... the less said, the better. |
His fans either love him blindly because of his various designs (I actually like those designs even if they seemed "out-of-world" compared to anything else) or because of his power. But mostly because of the power. Power is an attractive thing, you know, especially when it's unrestricted violent power. (I can't understand either xD)
Maybe Cell, the empty shell?
| BadNewsBlues wrote: | |
Commander Red, Colonel Silver, General White? |
Silver was nothing more than an apparition in the manga, to introduce something else. I'm pretty sure it's the anime who tried to make him a "villain boss" (to gain time). And I doubt Broly was imbued with the same mission than those characters.
| #810704 wrote: | | Toriyama was the same guy that wrote the main villain of one of his arcs as wanting to use the dragonballs not for power, not for evil, but for making himself taller. Then basically had the guy's second in command shoot him for his bullshit. |
Red was clearly never meant to be some Daimaô or Frieza. He came right after Pilaf, did anybody expect him to be some madly genocidal wannabe dictator or whatever possible dream? o_O Unless you read/watched later portions of the series first, youwould had to have a very large imagination for that, since it wasn't was DB was about at all in this time. The fact all those soldiers and more or less terrifying guys we saw were obeying him, a super wealthy little man with a size complex, was part of the fun. I don't get how one can see him as a failed attempt at a charismatic villain, when he was never presented as such.
Red was a success while Cell, supposed to be feared, wasn't.
Srry for my english.
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Zeino
Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 1098
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:37 am
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| AyanamiRei wrote: | | Maybe Cell, the empty shell? Red was a success while Cell, supposed to be feared, wasn't. |
Ridiculous. His arc was the best in the Z half of Dragon Ball and he was indeed memorable and formidable as the dark side of the desires of Goku and his friends to be the strongest warrior taken to it's ultimate logical conclusion. Plus he had the best designs for Toriyama and was voiced by Norio Wakamoto who always succeeds at making his villain roles charismatic.
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AyanamiRei
Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 87
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:36 am
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| Zeino wrote: |
| AyanamiRei wrote: | | Maybe Cell, the empty shell? Red was a success while Cell, supposed to be feared, wasn't. |
Ridiculous. His arc was the best in the Z half of Dragon Ball and he was indeed memorable and formidable as the dark side of the desires of Goku and his friends to be the strongest warrior taken to it's ultimate logical conclusion. Plus he had the best designs for Toriyama and was voiced by Norio Wakamoto who always succeeds at making his villain roles charismatic. |
Errm... I love his designs (except the N°17 form) and I recognize what you wrote. But I fail to see what it has to do with charisma, wich was the question I was answering.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6043
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:56 pm
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| AyanamiRei wrote: | |
Silver was nothing more than an apparition in the manga, to introduce something else. I'm pretty sure it's the anime who tried to make him a "villain boss" (to gain time). And I doubt Broly was imbued with the same mission than those characters. |
So basically Brolly was a shallow character just like those 3 I mentioned specifically for that reason?
| AyanamiRei wrote: | |
Red was clearly never meant to be some Daimaô or Frieza. He came right after Pilaf, did anybody expect him to be some madly genocidal wannabe dictator or whatever possible dream? |
Given how almost every other major villain that wanted the Dragonballs wanted them for some useful instead of some petty purpose? yes.
| AyanamiRei wrote: | | I don't get how one can see him as a failed attempt at a charismatic villain, when he was never presented as such.
Red was a success while Cell, supposed to be feared, wasn't. |
Cell was only feared because of his need to absorb people to enhance his strength and his threat to destroy the world which was mostly a way to give his arc stakes eventhough logically it made very little since for him to do so.
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