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NEWS: Japanese Poll: 87% Accept Manga Child Porn Regulation


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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:01 pm Reply with quote
UtenaAnthy wrote:
HitokiriShadow wrote:
UtenaAnthy wrote:
Amasa wrote:
[spoiler[I saw one with a cute loli on the cover with a bleeding clitoris, it was plastic sealed].


*Fumes with rage at the sheer misogyny on display*


I assume you are equally pissed when some poor boy or young man is used for such pleasures in manga aimed at women, right?


Of course I am, why wouldn't I be pissed off at fanservicey designs or shota or spoiler[someone getting their penis tortured] or whatever, sometimes I think people ask that soley to avoid addressing objectionable shit, as if someone else's hypocrisy would make their misogyny A-OK.


I only singled you out because you tend to be the most vocal. I've seen you make similar statements a number of times. Oddly, I never see this kind of thing (not just from you) in regards to the portrayals of males in anime (and hentai). It seems that at least half of all men in hentai exist to rape anything with a vagina. A lot of the remainder either A) have 'consensual' sex with anything with a vagina or B) are young men being abused by older women instead. Not exactly a flattering portrayal of those of us carrying a Y chromosome. The thing is, this porn, and the purpose is to give someone something to fap (or schlick) to. The characters tend to be given the shallowest of characterizations, just enough to fit into whatever character type fetish they are supposed to fill. It is not supposed to represent how people of either sex are supposed to be like or be treated. I find it a little disconcerting that Japanese men seem to like having stuff like castration in some of their porn, but I'm not particularly offended by it nor would I be if women were (and some probably are) getting off watching women abuse men. It 's not .... whatever the opposite of misogynist is... its just a fetish.

If we are talking about anime and manga in general, I'm as annoyed by the portrayal of females there as a lot of people. I also have issues with the portrayal of males, particularly shonen romance, but that's a rant for another time. But it gets annoying to see these displays of 'rage' against misogyny and the poor portrayals and representations of women, yet few people seem to care when its the opposite sex. It's tempting to get into other issues regarding the portrayal of the sexes in anime, but that's getting even more off topic than this is already.
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ultrapostman



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:04 am Reply with quote
Time to try fighting for the anti-lolicon side! Burn all the infidels! Twisted Evil


MokonaModoki wrote:


I personally find such material extremely offensive. But for people who find that it suits their tastes I would rather they have access to it as an outlet for their desires than be tempted to fulfill them by snatching kids off of playgrounds and such. The reverse assumption, that access to fictional depictions would inspire them to such acts seems counter-intuitive to me. Fictional material isn't going to make someone a pedophile, that's the sort of thing is basically hard-wired into their psyche by the time it manifests itself.


What makes you so sure that fictional material won't make someone a pedophile? Mentally imbalanced people could very easily use that sort of material as a catalyst for real life child rape. Also, and I think this is very important, the unregulated nature of lolicon hentai allows it to be seen (over the Internet if not in an actual manga) by minors whose brains are still not fully developed.

If an 11 or 12 year old (possibile with a slightly older kid and probable with anyone younger) decided to read this sort of material because his friends thought it was "cool" (American children are learning about sex at younger and younger ages, at least in New Jersey) then it could very possibily affect his brain development and reorient him (once he reached puberty) as a pedophile. Now, you might say that environment can't influence sexuality, but scientists know very little at all about what influences sexuality, and it's still possible that reading lolicon hentai could awaken a part of a child's brain (some tiny neuron in the hypothalamus probably) that would then reorient him/her as a pedophile.

Really, opposing this sort of regulation is completely stupid. You don't want minors looking at heteorsexual porn, so why can't you stop them from looking at this filth? [/i]
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:57 am Reply with quote
Okay, aside from the age old lolicon debate, anyone else find it strange that part of this talks about the Japanese government trying to regulate the internet? They think "harmful materials on the Internet should be regulated". Wha? Good luck. Anyone drawing lolicon and posting it online?

Meanwhile, again, I think this is crap. To classify drawings as child pornography is a bad idea. Aside from the whole thought crime aspect, I think it takes away from cracking down on actual child ponography and the bastards who actually do hurt children. Instead they're chasing people who merely think and draw the things.

Instead of this nonsense they should be going after people who commit the real crimes, not these imaginary ones.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:23 am Reply with quote
The Xenos wrote:
Okay, aside from the age old lolicon debate, anyone else find it strange that part of this talks about the Japanese government trying to regulate the internet? They think "harmful materials on the Internet should be regulated". Wha? Good luck. Anyone drawing lolicon and posting it online?

Meanwhile, again, I think this is crap. To classify drawings as child pornography is a bad idea. Aside from the whole thought crime aspect, I think it takes away from cracking down on actual child ponography and the bastards who actually do hurt children. Instead they're chasing people who merely think and draw the things.

Instead of this nonsense they should be going after people who commit the real crimes, not these imaginary ones.

Like we can actually regulate what goes on in the dark pages of cyberspace when it comes to lolicon or porn or whatever offensive materials may be out there. You have Disney porn over here and I haven't heard one person make a stink about it over here in the United States.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:12 am Reply with quote
One of the most compelling reasons for having representative democracy is that it protects the people from their own stupidity. There is a name for running things according to how the uninformed majority want it - it's called "mob rule".

I feel a lynching coming on...
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:22 am Reply with quote
fighterholic wrote:
Like we can actually regulate what goes on in the dark pages of cyberspace when it comes to lolicon or porn or whatever offensive materials may be out there. You have Disney porn over here and I haven't heard one person make a stink about it over here in the United States.


Of course you can regulate cyberspace. Indeed, every developed country in the world already regulates cyberspace (porn, online trading, online gambling, IPRs...).
The problem they have is in enforcing that regulation without taking the Chinese route.

At the moment, most illegal online activities go unpunished for the simple reason that governments (and companies) don't allocate the (enormous) resources that would be required to enforce the regulations - when the regulations are enforced (whether it's task forces in Britain and North America targeting users of child porn sites, the British police arresting eBay fraudsters or the music industry going after downloaders on a seemingly random basis) it's often not all that difficult to find and charge the guilty parties.

Whether it will ever be possible to effectively police the internet is a different matter.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:01 pm Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:
One of the most compelling reasons for having representative democracy is that it protects the people from their own stupidity. There is a name for running things according to how the uninformed majority want it - it's called "mob rule".

I feel a lynching coming on...
Are you seriously implying that all those people, who said there should be regulations controlling child porn manga and anime, are "uninformed"?
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babbo



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
angel_lover wrote:
One of the most compelling reasons for having representative democracy is that it protects the people from their own stupidity. There is a name for running things according to how the uninformed majority want it - it's called "mob rule".

I feel a lynching coming on...
Are you seriously implying that all those people, who said there should be regulations controlling child porn manga and anime, are "uninformed"?


Perhaps. Can you honestly tell me that you know the exact consequences of what regulating or banning it could have? As much as I support the idea that it should be regulated I hardly know the exact consequences and I doubt most other people do either.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:50 pm Reply with quote
babbo wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
angel_lover wrote:
One of the most compelling reasons for having representative democracy is that it protects the people from their own stupidity. There is a name for running things according to how the uninformed majority want it - it's called "mob rule".

I feel a lynching coming on...
Are you seriously implying that all those people, who said there should be regulations controlling child porn manga and anime, are "uninformed"?


Perhaps. Can you honestly tell me that you know the exact consequences of what regulating or banning it could have? As much as I support the idea that it should be regulated I hardly know the exact consequences and I doubt most other people do either.
Well maybe you should live in a country that already has regulations that the Japanese do not, then it would be as clear as day to you. Even possessing child porn in any form here in the UK will get you inside a prison mighty quick, so because of that it has driven it very deep underground where only the most seriously sick would go to the hard work and risk of looking for it. Therefore there isn't that much of it available like in Japan where one can go to any book shop and find it on the shelves in manga. It's only in the last few months has any report come out that any law enforcement effort has occured there in regard to it. A token effort maybe, but at least an effort after all and that, was most likely on grounds of not showing proper ratings of the content to keep it out the hands of minors.
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babbo



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
babbo wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
angel_lover wrote:
One of the most compelling reasons for having representative democracy is that it protects the people from their own stupidity. There is a name for running things according to how the uninformed majority want it - it's called "mob rule".

I feel a lynching coming on...
Are you seriously implying that all those people, who said there should be regulations controlling child porn manga and anime, are "uninformed"?


Perhaps. Can you honestly tell me that you know the exact consequences of what regulating or banning it could have? As much as I support the idea that it should be regulated I hardly know the exact consequences and I doubt most other people do either.
Well maybe you should live in a country that already has regulations that the Japanese do not, then it would be as clear as day to you. Even possessing child porn in any form here in the UK will get you inside a prison mighty quick, so because of that it has driven it very deep underground where only the most seriously sick would go to the hard work and risk of looking for it. Therefore there isn't that much of it available like in Japan where one can go to any book shop and find it on the shelves in manga. It's only in the last few months has any report come out that any law enforcement effort has occured there in regard to it. A token effort maybe, but at least an effort after all.


Come on now, you have to know that's a bad comparison. How can you compare a country that has had it banned in all forms to one that has a subculture that's obsessed with it? Not to mention that they're two entirely different cultures to begin with. The fact that this kind of stuff is highly available in this day and age should point out to you straight away that it's an entirely different situation compared to the UK and thus new regulation would have entirely different consequences.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:07 pm Reply with quote
I know enough to realise that if the UK had no regulations like Japan, it would be just as available here, as there, but more live action stuff as the "cartoons are for kids" dogma is still very strong here. A situation I wouldn't want to live in myself let alone raise my children in. Also that statement implys that that "subculture" is a large majority of the population which couldn't be further from the fact of it.
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grgspunk



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:28 pm Reply with quote
Other than the lack of evidence to back this poll up, I see one major flaw: It doesn't take into consideration the sheer abundance of loli/shota manga and assumes everyone is truthfully responding.

To me, even if this poll is indicitive that the entire population says they accept regulation of loli/shota, it hardly ever hear of Japanese people trying to do something about it. Maybe the censoring the brodcast of KnJ or Moetan might seem like they are doing something, but what about all those loli/shota hentai manga being sold in all those bookstores out there? Words are kinda hollow if actions/inaction suggest otherwise.

Even if this poll can be interpreted as 87% of the Japanese saying they're for regulation of this sort of content, I've been to Japan numerous times, and have seen loli/shota doujinshi/manga on display in practically every adult section of every bookstore I go to, even in the larger "Barnes & Noble" style ones. In other words, the poll says that the most Japanese people say they want to regulate it, but what with all the loli/shota manga out there, they don't seem to have any intention of doing anything about it.

This inconsistency is striking to me, because it begs the question: Did the people who said that they are for regulation actually mean it? If sentiment against loli/shota in Japan were this strong, assuming the poll wasn't rigged, wouldn't there be more protests against the ease in which they can be accessed? I mean, loli/shota manga isn't THAT hard to get, even if it may be considered niche or otaku-oriented.

I mean, having voices against it combined with a lack of willingness to do so indicates a strong possiblity that people who like this sort of stuff may be willing to lie and say that they are for regulating out of embarrassment or fear of not appearing normal. If you tried to openly admit it, you might be afraid you might get looked with weird eyes (no, I HIGHLY doubt that you'd get deported) or get laughed at. Who's to say this doesn't affect how people respond to these kinds of polls? If those who liked it would come out clean, I wouldn't be suprised if the numbers would be lower.


But then again, considering that ANN implements an americentric view on a non-Western subject when it comes to loli/shota, I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't care about the poll's flaws and just tried to use the results to provide ammunition to the anti-loli group anyway. Go figure.
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babbo



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I know enough to realise that if the UK had no regulations like Japan, it would be just as available here, as there, but more live action stuff as the "cartoons are for kids" dogma is still very strong here. A situation I wouldn't want to live in myself let alone raise my children in. Also that statement implys that that "subculture" is a large majority of the population which couldn't be further from the fact of it.


The difference is that we're talking about going from a situation where it isn't regulated to one where it is. Btw child abuse is illegal in japan, I may be misreading your post but from the way you wrote it seems you think otherwise.

Most cultures (even Japanese culture) think cartoons are childish >.>

The fact that it's a subculture denotes that it isn't a majority -.-;;
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:04 pm Reply with quote
nargun wrote:
Hint: "People who don't understand &c" doesn't actually refer to you. I can see how you might think it does [and I apologise for that], but not every response is an attack, you know.

Ah, perhaps I was the one who misunderstood.

grgspunk wrote:
Other than the lack of evidence to back this poll up

I am probably going to regret asking this, but what evidence are you speaking of? I mean you and others pretty much took any poll out of the picture because you said on any poll like this people will lie through there teeth. Do you have any evidence that the way this poll was conducted would encourage people to give untruthful answers?

People have pointed to the fact that it says "The poll was conducted by investigators in individual interviews" would lead to untruthful answers. However there are many ways to conduct an interview so that the answers that are given are never known by the person asking them. Anyone who has ever given blood(as I do, support you local ARC) has gone through a similar process. Plus I am sure there was more than two questions on this poll, it was just these were the only two which related to anime/manga.
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otakujohn



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:47 pm Reply with quote
slanted sample is slaaanted. Canned in Banada, and soon Japan too!
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