Forum - View topicNEWS: Sentai Adds 3rd You're Under Arrest TV, Yozakura, Tayutama
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Zippydsm
Exempt from Grammar Rules
Posts: 134 |
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Bah drop dubbing which take up 60% of profit and do sub only at 1/4th the price you'll break even and then with combined efforts with TV you can do more not less. |
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Raider4000
Posts: 9 |
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Don't know why you keep saying sub is more profit when the sales go to dubs. Subs don't sell period. There's a reason why the shows sell with a dub. If it wasn't for me and the countless others actually buying the anime you wouldn't even have a mass production of sub only because there wouldn't be a market to sell to. So your logic in subbing only would bring more shows to the states does not have a leg to stand on. As I have concluded your one of the few people who bash dubs and ride in the sub only clan which also is a nuisance to the anime fans in America. This is why you guys get booed at conventions when you start spouting your nonsense. Learn Japanese and go watch the shows over there. You're like an immigrant who comes to a new country and tries to change it for yourself rather than adapting and fitting in. Don't get me wrong some of the Japanese voice actors are great and watching it subbed once in awhile is excellent but we live in a different country we want our own dub just like they have their own dialogue. And by the way we have some excellent dubs that actually beat the original.
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Reliak
Posts: 50 |
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If that were true, wouldn't companies have stopped with the sub-only by now? Sub-only releases don't sell as much as dubbed (obviously), but they must at least turn a profit if Nozomi, Sentai, Media Blasters etc are still doing them. |
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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Where do you get the idea that sub only sets don't sell? Clannad sold better than some of Funi's dubbed series at Best Buy. It has also outsold several of them at places like Right Stuf. Working in retail, I can tell you that there have been several sub only sets that have sold quite well, including many from Sentai and Media Blasters. In fact, some of been successful enough, that both companies have said they are considering going back and dubbing some of the shows. John Sirabella recently said they are considering dubbing Loveless because it sold so well, while Matt Greenfield has said the same thing about shows like Clannad. Now whether or not that happens, is an entirely different matter. Just because a show has a dub, does not mean it will ultimately succeed. Big Windup failed despite a decent dub. Kodocha, even with it's terrible dub, and Detective Conan also did the same. There is probably a much longer list of shows that failed with a dub, than those that have failed sub only. Bandai Visual titles don't count here, as they failed for entirely different reasons. Subbed or dubbed, those shows wouldn't have moved at those prices. Clannad, Loveless, Princess Resurrection, Aira, and He Is My Master have all done relatively well, and were most likely profitable, despite being sub only. Many of them have had subsequent seasons picked up, continued to to place well in sales charts at online retailers, or sold quicker than the publishers were able to order additional print runs, leading to periods of unavailability. Sometimes the added cost of a dub, especially for series with no chance of a TV deal, can be the difference between a license being profitable and ultimately loosing money. As we learned in the Geneon podcast a few weeks back, just because a show ultimately sold okay, doesn't mean it will make money. Demon Lord Dante wasn't a huge sales failure, but the expensive license and production costs ultimately caused that title to fail. It needed to sell three times what it did, just to break even. |
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Raider4000
Posts: 9 |
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You're right Clannad is amazing and it sold well. But for a fact the majority subs only do not sell that well. Media Blasters makes alot of their profit from their pron lol. Infact Media Blasters does alot of bad dubbing not all but quite a handful and they get alot of hate for it. And the sub only people bask in that glory and take advantage of it stating their reasons for sub only is the way to go. If there was no dubbing going on as someone stated before the market would be so little near to none on sales for anime over here. And this is why you get flamed and booed becuase you try to wreck what we have going for us.
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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I don't think there should be no dubbing. I would like as many shows as possible to be dubbed, as I'm a big dub fan, especially ADV/Seraphim and Bang Zoom. That's part of the reason that I can't wait to see Halo Legends, and the shows that Sentai is dubbing. I'm also well aware that some American dubs have even been better than the original Japanese. 
But I understand that the market is at a point where not everything can be dubbed. The fact that Funimation has even admitted that speaks louder than I can. So far, Funi has simply been passing over or not bidding on shows they don't feel can dubbed profitably, rather than do any sub only releases. If they did start doing some sub only releases, even if only minor shows, I'm sure it would be a shock to the R1 market. So I have no problem with Funi sticking to a dub only. I would rather have a few shows I want be done sub only, then never be released at all. Also, like I said, dubbing a show can be the difference between it making and loosing money. I would rather have as many R1's in business as possible, just so there is a wide variety of licenses. So I obviously don't want them to go around and irresponsibly dub every show, even those that have very limited sales potential to begin with. Just because I don't like most Funimation releases, for either the show itself, their video quality, or whatever, doesn't mean I want them to stop licensing or stop doing dubs. But there are a lot of people out there who have the false impression that if Sentai, Media Blasters, or Bandai go out of business, that Funi is going to pick up all these shows and give them dubs. By their own admission, Funi has first shot at a lot of shows, and have passed up on many of them. If they passed on several of these shows once, why would they want them once they've already hit the market, and a lot of their sales potential is gone? There are extremes on both sides who are simply refusing to listen to reason. |
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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Sub only releases don't do very well. They only sell enough to break even or the profit-margin is very small, how can you grow as a company going that route?. Either way going sub only would not help the industry it would only end up hurting it as you would alienate the a large majority of anime fans. And you're kidding yourself if you think subbed anime would even pull in the ratings if it was on TV, it would do worse the shows at the 5.AM slot. The problem isn't dubbing, it's dubbing shows that don't sell here. |
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Raider4000
Posts: 9 |
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Sub only is not the way to go. Infact some of their shows have dubs. Their selection is very slim. If they keep subs only they will not last nor keep afloat. The deaths of alot of the anime companies was not solely on the dubbing infact it was hardly the problem. We are living in the crisis right now and another big impact is all the shit ass downloading. Also all the individual volumes was not working out especially around 2007 when the crisis started hitting the industries this is why we hardly see the volumes anymore but rather box sets and parts. Alot of the subs only are rather low tier anyways as some of you stated, but sometimes when a big good show gets snagged as one of the few sub only shows it doesn't get the proper treatment and it only falls victim to a poor release, rather than getting a good dub and released properly. Chances are they won't get re released because 1) It won't sell well (majority of the time) and that's a big #1, and 2) No one will buy two copies when you should already get your sub on your dubbed dvd. (That's if the companies even get to this part which won't happen becuase of #1).
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Zippydsm
Exempt from Grammar Rules
Posts: 134 |
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And dubs in general make enough all the time? I don't think so I think dubs take up to much time and effort and are generally poorly done. So Re focus the effort on getting series licensed in the US and distributing it as cheaply as you can to build the fan base, if it dose well enough on TV or sub then properly dub it but dubbing it just cause you got it makes no sense.... |
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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First of all, I would like to see your sale figures that support your assertion that sub only releases don't do well. If you have none, than you shouldn't go making assertions you have nothing to back up. In case you missed, the ANN podcast, a former employee of Geneon gave numbers that indicated that sub sets can sometimes outsell those of dubbed shows. I also work in retail, and have seen several sub only sets from Sentai and Media Blasters outsell a lot of dubbed sets from Funimation. I would also like to see your financial statements that show that sub only titles just barely break even, BTW. Second of all, TV deals will often pay the cost of producing a dub. Though that will largely depend on the TV channel, and the amount being paid. But even just a few hundred, or few thousand per episode, will help defray the cost of a dub. Other than that International channel, and the Ghibli movies on TMC, I can't think of an instance where an anime was shown on TV subbed. And while forgoing a dub may alienate potential consumers, adding one is no guarantee that these people will actually buy the show. I can't see how adding a dub to Polyphonica or Aria would have increased sales enough to warrant the added expense. Lastly, the sole problem with R1 anime was not just dubbing shows that don't sell here. There were a large number of problems, including piracy, over paying for licenses, some companies over extending themselves, Music Lands collapse, Best Buy scaling purchases back, etc. There is not one lone reason for the near collapse of anime in North America. |
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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Dubs are poorly done? What era do you live in, the 80's? Let me say it again going sub only would ultimately hurt the industry. |
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Raider4000
Posts: 9 |
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Once again there's a reason why there are hardly any sub only shows, it won't sell. And if a show does get grabbed as sub only it won't be released later on as dubbed, you are ignorant. Cheaply making anime will loose business not make more money you idiot. Hardly anyone will buy subs as it already is. The problem here is when a good show gets grabbed and done subbed only because the company decides to be cheap asses chances are it won't be re released because it wont sell! Hell even look at Clannad one of the few sub only releases that actually did well still hasn't even been re released. The mind set of "well if it sells well subbed we can then sell it dubbed!" doesn't work the companies who do subbed only are treading on thin water, they won't grow with their mediocre sales, hell they even have a few dubbed shows. All they do is piss the majority fans off who actually want that awesome title they snagged with a no dub. Why don't you help the industries rather hurting it by buying some dvds and watching it subbed if you enjoy it so much since its a standard option on the dvds! Also help the industries by telling dumb friends to stop download and actually buy some shit as I do. I have a dumb friend who has 300gb of anime downloaded and he claims he buys shit I tell him he owns not 1% of it and I thank him for killing industries. Either way a sub only industry would make the anime community so so small because we live in a different country we want our own dialogue on our shows. How do you think the Japanese get voices on their characters, magically free? Nothing is free. You have to spend money to make money this is why dubs far outweigh subs in sales and profits, we live in a different country. Sure there's more misses on dubs than subs but look at the licensing lists. Sub only releases are peanuts compares to dub and do not make squat.
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SXAniMedia
 Posts: 139 |
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That's not the reason it hasn't been re-released. There's no need to devalue the half season collections quite yet, especially when they are already cheap and readily available. As to your other statements, you're only partially right. Of course the lack of dub is a limitation, but in the case of niche titles, adding the dub value just isn't enough to expand the buyer base enough to justify the cost of a dub (and to risk no profit or huge losses). Some dub fans want to justify their need so much that they generalize everything and equate different properties, and sometimes make up crud - as if Tayutama is not niche and could ever sell to warrant dub production costs. Tayutama, is the next Naruto (they're all the same, right?)!  ADV in the Sojitz era licensed too many niche titles that simply couldn't sell enough when they got caught in a market which was in flux and especially in light of the licensing and dub costs.
Sub releases have kept companies in the game, as evidenced by the last few years where those releasing sub-only titles have remained stable. |
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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It was one the anime con panels with Greg Ayres. |
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Raider4000
Posts: 9 |
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Already said little niche titles are the ones that get sub only, most of the time except a few occasions which on that case only pisses the anime fans off. And that's the reason they are sub only, done, period why bring it up for the billionth time. The point I'm getting at that a few of you keep crying about is subs only will not grow the industry but only weaken. And you fire back at saying dub is too much well guess what you need to spend money to make money we don't want sub only titles and that's why subs don't sell for squat. Also another problem with failed dubs is because they dub a niche stupid show that will probably not sell much so why pay a high end cast or decent when you know its not going to rack in money. Like Big Windup was brought up, that's a no brainer that it won't sell well, the average anime buyer won't buy baseball compared to ninja, sci fi, action whatever, (enter blank genre). That is the company's fault and in the end they eat it, lesson learned for them. So in the end when an actual good show that has a fan base like You're Under Arrest gets snagged by a loserville wanna be Region 1 anime licensing company it falls victim and chances are it won't ever be re released unless they lost the rights, but even then chances are slim because of the poor release the first time.
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As you can see I'm super sad 
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