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Semi-OT News - Banning DVD Imports


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Tempest
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:21 pm Reply with quote
Louie-kun wrote:
And the Anime Network shows farscape clips at the end of the shows you watch. They could at least put up anime clips instead. I could care less about Farscape and Mutant X.


What ADV is doing by this is cross marketing. They're trying to expand their market for their live action and for their anime.

It's why anime companies and sotres sometime advertise on non-anime websites, magazines or what not. If you only advertise to existing customers you aren't doing anything to actively grow your customer base.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:27 pm Reply with quote
eva05 wrote:
If the companies here didn't do such a hack job on art, presentation and mastering quality fans would not have an excuse to buy foreign market versions of the discs.


Twage wrote:
This is untrue. There are plenty of high-quality releases of foreign films, especially anime, in the US. There are lackluster presentations in foreign countries too. Suckness is not a quality reserved for the United States.


I wouldn't call it completely untrue. There are many good North American DVD releases, but there are also some pretty bad ones out there.

Eva05 has a point that if US companies release better quality and more timely adaptations of foreign DVDs there will be less inclination to import foreign DVDs.

Although, unlike Eva05, who is being a bit extreme imho, for the most part I find most US Anime releases to be acceptable, and given the price difference, I'm more than willing to put up with some packaging inequality and what not.

But Anime is actually the jewel in the rough when it comes to US releases of foreign adaptations. Most other stuf gets significanlty inferior treatment at the hands of significantly bigger companies.

-t
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:35 am Reply with quote
I can't see the point of it, as long as the profits are going to the legallly right people. why should they care really. I can understand the technical reasoning of different regions, but as was stated that's more of a marketing purpose than for any pirating purpose. It should be brightly appearent to them that that reason is a complete failure. So the vague reason of marketing is just cutting off their nose to spite their face IMHO. Merimax are just being daconian.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:18 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I can't see the point of it, as long as the profits are going to the legallly right people. why should they care really. I can understand the technical reasoning of different regions, but as was stated that's more of a marketing purpose than for any pirating purpose. It should be brightly appearent to them that that reason is a complete failure. So the vague reason of marketing is just cutting off their nose to spite their face IMHO. Merimax are just being daconian.


The point for them is to make sure the profit goes into the right pockets. Miramax may pay millions for a North American license, and then spend millions more promoting the release (or thousands in some cases). If you find out about a movie from their publicity, but end up buying an import, Miramax gets nothing.

That's the logic, it is somewhat flawed (for example you may have known about this movie before they ever publicized it here) but its basicly sound. It's a good reason for them to want to minimize importation. But DVD region encoding already does a lot to minimize importing (most people don't have multi-region players).

IMHO, although the reasons are sound, they are less important that the consumer's right to chose his product. Placing technical barrierrs like Region-encoding and what not are fine as far as I care, but legal barriers is another matter entirely and not appropriate IMO.
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Tempest:
Quote:
Miramax may pay millions for a North American license, and then spend millions more promoting the release (or thousands in some cases).


You mean underpromoting.

Edit: Don't forget that(theoretically), the unedited version of Avalon will be on dvd on Tuesday, and also contain its original language track. I don't care whether you loved it or hated it. It's always important to prove to Miramaxe that you support unedited Asian and foreign films.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:03 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
You mean underpromoting.


Granted
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Mohawk52



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:58 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:

The point for them is to make sure the profit goes into the right pockets. Miramax may pay millions for a North American license, and then spend millions more promoting the release (or thousands in some cases). If you find out about a movie from their publicity, but end up buying an import, Miramax gets nothing.
.Well in my case, living in the UK it has worked in their favour. I had to import "Princess Mononoke" dubbed, from the US on NTSC VHS in order to see it. ( yes my VCR is double formated.) That was 3 years ago. It wasn't until just resently that it was finally available here in Region 2 PAL. So it's a bit of a cheeky double standard for them to say " No imports, but exports are OK". Like I said, as long as everyone with their hand in the licensed deal, from Japan to Mars, gets their share of the price per unit, no matter who purchases it from where ever, then where's the beef? Besides, If they have it under license but don't distribute it, then people have every right to import it from the foreign licensee. If Miramax had spent the "Millions" on the promotion of Mononoke as you seem to think they had, why was it buried in a few back street cinemas and art houses with little, or no advertising, and then moan that it didn't do well in the states? Answers on a ten pound stirling note to this address please. Wink Multi-region is the way in the UK mate. When it comes to anime availability, you yanks don't know you've been born.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
If Miramax had spent the "Millions" on the promotion of Mononoke as you seem to think they had,


Umm, you assume to much. I was speaking about theory and globally about all licensed titles, I never even mentioned Mononoke. Hell, I even included the comment about thousands right after I said millions just to make it clear that I was talking about whatever amount of money, large or small.

Quote:
you yanks don't know you've been born.


I'm not a yank thank you very much. There you go with the assumptions again.

Quote:
" No imports, but exports are OK".
Hmm, not quite so. You see, they're talking about "No Imports of Locally Licensed Titles." Was the title you imported from the US licensed in the UK?

You'd probably find that they'd also be perfectly willing to stop exports. They after all don't export directly unless they have the license to do so. Take AnimEigo & Viz as examples, both companies have gone to lengths to show that they do not approve of the exporting of their titles to English Speaking markets outside of the United States.

I'm not sure if you assumed that I supported this move either, but since you seem to assume a lot, let me make it clear (as it should have been if you carefully read what I had said before) that I don't support Miramax's (or anyone's) attempts to legally ban or restrict the importation of otherwise legal media. I merely see their point of view and respect that they have good reasons, as a business, for trying to do this. And I, as an individual, have good reasons to be against it*.

*Of course, I'm not directly affected by US import laws, so this discussion is purely for discussion sake from my point of view.

-t

-t
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Mohawk52



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
Umm, you assume to much. I was speaking about theory and globally about all licensed titles, I never even mentioned Mononoke. Hell, I even included the comment about thousands right after I said millions just to make it clear that I was talking about whatever amount of money, large or small.
Point taken and an apology is given.

Mohawk52 wrote:
you yanks don't know you've been born.


Tempest wrote:
I'm not a yank thank you very much. There you go with the assumptions again.
I know your not, and I didn't mean you personally. As this is an open forum and not a private one, I was being general for the majority of your readership who are of the colonies.

Quote:
" No imports, but exports are OK". Hmm, not quite so. You see, they're talking about "No Imports of Locally Licensed Titles."
I find that a bit pointless myself. Only the fanatically hardcore otaku would be mad enough to import an already imported and licensed product that was locally available. Now I'm sure there are such people about but they can't be that numerous to cause any measureable damage to local profits, can they?
Quote:
Was the title you imported from the US licensed in the UK?
No, not at the time. It was legally available in some continental European countries but sadly and strangely not the UK.
Quote:
You'd probably find that they'd also be perfectly willing to stop exports. They after all don't export directly unless they have the license to do so. Take AnimEigo & Viz as examples, both companies have gone to lengths to show that they do not approve of the exporting of their titles to English Speaking markets outside of the United States.
AnimEigo have a UK distributor, athough this distributor only has a few of their titles, more are starting to trickle in. ADV have HQ's in Wales and again we get some of their titles, but not all. Viz was quite happy to export to the EU and UK until the Japanese studio's just recently spanked them with an injunction to stop as they didn't have license to do so. Strangely they went through a reorganisation after that. Apart from AnimEigo and ADV there are no other major licensed studios/distributors here.
There are two independant distributors in London who have links with the US but all of their merchandice is US imports, NTSC, or R1. It's one of those that I got my copy of "Princess Mononoke".

Quote:
I'm not sure if you assumed that I supported this move either, but since you seem to assume a lot, let me make it clear (as it should have been if you carefully read what I had said before) that I don't support Miramax's (or anyone's) attempts to legally ban or restrict the importation of otherwise legal media. I merely see their point of view and respect that they have good reasons, as a business, for trying to do this. And I, as an individual, have good reasons to be against it*.

*Of course, I'm not directly affected by US import laws, so this discussion is purely for discussion sake from my point of view.

-t

-t
I did not assume that you supported this action. A misunderstanding between us both.
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Twage



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:59 pm Reply with quote
Eva05, I simply don't believe that there's a sizable number of foreign releases of American films that are better than the originals. To pull off the top of my head the DVDs I've imported recently from the US, the Star Trek movie special editions, Criterion Collection of Life of Brian and Brazil, and the Disney Treasures and Looney Tunes Golden Collection. Those works get nowhere near that kind of presentation here.

Then again I think you're making an incorrect assumption about films in the US and abroad. Japanese today don't even like their own golden age directors enough to release their films decently. It's taken such a long time for Kurosawa's films to get the two-disc treatment here and they're only just coming out. Seven Samurai just came out in a special edition last year, but it was out in the US on Criterion in 1999. Even during his lifetime Kurosawa had to leave the country to keep getting money for his films.

And there's the issue right there. The US/West is the cultural hegemony, so people in other markets give some priority (in varying degrees) to films produced there. In Japan the domestic film industry was virtually snuffed out in favor of US imports. The US has no such worry. It makes most of the movies, so there's little room left for foreign films. What room there is, though, gets reserved for the good stuff, like Kurosawa, and those are the films the elite like, so they're going to give them a discerning release. Often good films fall through and get bad releases, but that's because it's a niche market and unlike in other countries the majority of people couldn't care less about foreign films. I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes the US gets it right when the country of origin messes it up. That happens too.

And that was really my only point. I didn't mean to say that foreign films get good releases in the US. Eva, I just didn't like how you brushed off American releases and called them the problem instead of recognizing the larger circumstances and the fact that there are exceptions the other way as well.
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Carol Maxwell



Joined: 17 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:12 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Geez, it took you that long to get it?! I guess me saying, "Supporting Kill Bill just gives Miramax more money to screw Asian films" finally got through to you.


And it took people this long to realise this? Neutral
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eva05
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Twage wrote:
Eva05, I simply don't believe that there's a sizable number of foreign releases of American films that are better than the originals. To pull off the top of my head the DVDs I've imported recently from the US, the Star Trek movie special editions, Criterion Collection of Life of Brian and Brazil, and the Disney Treasures and Looney Tunes Golden Collection. Those works get nowhere near that kind of presentation here.


While I would agree that not every foreign market version of films made in the USA or Euro are inherently better than their Japanese counterparts I would also say we have different taste in films.

Star Trek, Brazil and Life of Brian aren't necessarily movies I would run out and buy (actually I don't own any of them). Nor have I any use for Disney or Looney Toons stuff.

However, the Japanese versions of the Brothers Quay animated short films do look nicer than the US/Euro releases. Hell is for Heroes, Bullet, and Escape from Alcatraz all received better presentation and mastering in their Japanese releases. The majority of buyers in the US market barely even know about these movies, but for Japanese movie goers who love Steve McQueen or Clint Eastwood...

j
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:34 am Reply with quote
Just an addendum for you "Beat" Takeshi Kitano(the teacher in Battle Royale) fans. Miramaxe will be releasing Sonatine on dvd Jan. 13. Edit: And to be on-topic, Joe Hisaishi does the music.
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