Forum - View topicREVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Vol. 2 Blu-Ray
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Otaking09
 Posts: 637 |
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Those are the rules, but at the end of the day, I'm ultimately going to be the who stops (concedes), so the "winner" is merely the one who gets the most out of it. If you consider that I'm basically trying to culminate opinions from people who love the show into an overall ball of perspective, then... well, I can't really border my thought process into a black and white mode; do you want someone to "win"? I don't. Your opinions have passion, but there's no weight if everyone is saying the same thing, minus a few people. If there's something unreasonable that I've said: directly address it; tell how it confuses you, we'll deal with it, and move on. I can't help the way I've asked for things directly early on. Before, I was just wanted a rough handling of how people (primarily Zac at that point), could be that involved. You find something incomprehensible? Bring it to me. Gold is valuable to the right people ultimately, and enough people who have been talking to me largely say the same things to me; I'm constantly reiterating my angle, but I'm mostly getting "you should be ashamed for yourself for not understanding us". I've already accepted fandom; I've said it countless times. it's not about that it's about a logical handling of why/how. As for that link, yes, i'm aware of the underlying themes of "right choice", utilitarianism, and Madoka's justification. But, personally, it doesn't change my belief that - if it weren't for Kyubey's/Homura's infodumping (aka, the abruptness of those last episodes) - then things probably wouldn't have turned out that way.
From that segment, he's saying that, ultimately, all the pain the show went through was pointless. And he's also saying that the 2/3 of the show was nothing really when compared to all the revelations of the last episodes. Personally, when you strip away all the justifications Homura/Kyubey stand for, I too didn't find the overall picture that great. And, think of his writing style akin to Zac's on the anime previews; funner to read that way.
That's one of my biggest problems since it shouldn't have to be this way for people to confirm what they thought/felt. I use Tutu (and I guess also Tatami G. and NGE) because those creators simply ask people to define what they saw. They don't rely on philosophy/symbolism completely to get their point across; Madoka's entire cast is a slave to their themes instead of breaking away. Yes, Madoka did essentially do that, but after 12 episodes of trying to figure out what's going on, with nary a single episode pairing not bombarding us with more characters, more vagueness and then BOOM! - a giant wave of infodumping that pretty much limits how it can end (of course... they could've just shat out an ending). The ending simply felt too coercive.
When you take the pain away from the actions that have justified how an entire series was working... just to justify Madoka's inner-journey and make everything nice, well... personally, I find cheap easy writing. Ultimately, in the real world (and we are going on the basis of Madoka's feelings that of a real girl), a wish does nothing; it takes action. In a sense, Madoka just changed her outlook on what she was forced to do and that's what frustrates me since THAT was what I was watching 12 episodes for = a little girl waking up to an unhealthy world where innocence is milked warped for a "greater good"... and she just wishes that reality away. It'd make a sweet tale for little girls in the age group of Madoka, but there's just too much harshness and bitterness for it to be whisked away with a heartfelt wish. Personal opinion ^ not saying I'm right. I understand what you said, it does make sense, and it does flesh out a bit more of where my frustration lied, but knowing the intents of everyone didn't take away how everything just fell into place. In all of my previous examples (NGE, Tatami G, NANA, Tutu), they paid for their desires with harsh reality, they either make up for it, die trying, or succeed.
I told you countless times, I'm doing all this relaxed-like because I'm not as pent up as half of you guys think I am. If I were, I'd have lost my composure... miles of posts ago... It is pure symbolism (and perhaps, pure ideology. Better word) if you consider that all of the choices rests on the practical. A symbol is meant to interpret, and if you have witch-fights that are simply there... to be there = waste of space, IMO. Heck, relying completely on Kyubey's philosophy and the philosophy of "good intent choice" is a form of symbolism that we are constantly understanding how it works in the series, then Madoka's philosophy simply negates Kyubey's philosophy. Not only did it feel very impersonal to Madoka herself because it was just 2 episodes ago that she knew enough to actually "wish", but then everything and everyone's efforts boil down to a clash of ideas = symbols and ideology. Does this make sense?
Yes, Madoka's characters lacked human curiosity and took everything at face value. This is why I would've preferred the story be in Homura's name because then we'd actually understand why she kept standing still all those eps until Madoka was at her most stifled and depressed. If there's anything I do hate about the show, it's those last episodes. EDIT: Please take next comments to my forum "RahXephon, Madoka, and Criticism"[/quote] |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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No. YOU go to the existing goddamn Madoka thread and read the most recent half-dozen or so pages of posts. I am not going to [expletive] restate things that are already available on the forum for you to read. If you can't [expletive] do at least that much, then why should I [expletive] spoonfeed it to you? |
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Otaking09
Posts: 637 |
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I don't want what that forum is giving. In fact, I'm pretty much satisfied with what I learned from everyone here. My forum is only about understanding what makes the show great according to everyone who cares. Thanks to numerous links and your description about the ending, the staff's explanation to what happened, I can get now both what makes it popular and why anime fans like it. So, I'm done. If anyone has anymore to say, say it at my forum because that is designed for my purposes. In 12 hours I will delete all my posts on this forum, because I didn't intend this to be so long. |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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There's no point in deleting your posts, that will just make the last few pages of this thread incomprehensible. If you feel you've gotten enough of an answer, fine, we can move on now, but you might as well leave your posts here so that people viewing this thread later can still follow the discussion and maybe learn something.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure you can delete your posts now that people have replied to them. You could edit them to nothing, but as I said, that would just make for a confusing thread. Last edited by Mad_Scientist on Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Oh god. If you do that they should ban you for the most epic trolling ever. fudge that would be the most incredibly assholish thing you could possibly do. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Kyubey is not a utilitarian either by Bentham's (he doesn't say that the end justifies the means for starters, there's a calculus) or Mill's standards. He's not trying to maximize happiness, nor is he trying to minimize pain (this should be obvious while watching the show). He's trying to spoiler[stop the world from ending by the most efficient way available]. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2394 |
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You're welcome. =) Your criticisms aren't exactly invalid, but be aware that by making assumptions about the creators, you're treading into territory that not only can blind yourself, but can possibly make you sound horribly ignorant to those around you who know the truth. Still, it was nice to discuss everything. I think our discussions, while some of them got out of hand overall, are worth keeping up for other people to read for themselves. Still, it's definitely best to stop here. Time to move on and let other people post again. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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[quote="Otaking09"]
If you do this, I'll ban you for a good while. All it will mean is I then have to go and delete pages and pages of comments and discussion. Do not do this. |
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Otaking09
Posts: 637 |
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Maybe, but my original point (that I made to Zac personally), will be warped all over the place and most people would just prefer to comment about his review now than read about one guy's preference when it comes to storytelling.
You are the only one angered this much. How am I an asshole when I've hurt no one, insulted no one, and kept my dig up? How about you cut the crap and tell me what's bothering you so much. My original question was how Madoka could be this popular when all it really is heavy on is aesthetics and thematics; from this debate, I learned that many people enjoy Kyubey's stake in things and Madoka's reasoning for her choice. I'm satisfied. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Congratulations, you learned absolutely goddamn nothing. Truly, I am in awe of this accomplishment. I'm mad because you are using multiple fallacies, bullshit argument tactics, and irritating passive-agressive tone to blithely disregard every argument we've actually made. Your original question was answered, and not with the answer you seem to think you have gotten. Your original question is based on false-premise to begin with, and thus everything that flowed from it is completely meaningless. |
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Otaking09
Posts: 637 |
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I'm just comparing how each creators handled their work when dealing with fans. Truth is purely subjective when it comes to deducting a story's worth, so I don't think I'm blinding myself when I see things connect together in a fashion that clicks with my understanding. Thank you for your dedication.
Still doesn't help my liking him, his plight, his reasoning, or the series, but thanks for breaking him down further.
Ugh... well, technically, this whole thing was meant for your take on things, but since you haven't finished the show and everyone here did put time into things, I guess I won't. Still, ultimately, my posts did nothing for people involved so I didn't think anything would be wrong with putting it outta sight.
Fallacies? Dude you make it sound like what I was asking for is done everyday. I wanted a "personal" understanding. I wanted to listen to people. I'm convinced and aware of many of Madoka's workings, but they don't work for me; I'm curious how they can work for anyone else. As for BS argument tactics, I'm not really arguing to win so much as to notice something I didn't before. Maybe you're angry because you're arguing for something else and I'm not. Hell, that would piss even me off! My tone is like that because I'm trying not to overstate my opinion, but acknowledge how my opinion formed. So... my only question is how you can say I learned and accomplished nothing when you probably don't even know what I'm looking for or at? False-premise = Personal satisfaction - not meant to be taken so seriously. Of course it is meaningless in the end, but I'm just flatly curious. Last edited by Otaking09 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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You don't really grasp how this whole "public forum" thing works, do you? |
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Otaking09
Posts: 637 |
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Probably not enough, it seems. |
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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Last edited by Veers on Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Because other people aren't you. SATSQ |
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