Forum - View topicREVIEW: Shigurui: Death Frenzy DVD
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
rekishi
Posts: 78 |
|
|||||||||||||||
don't be put off by what the review says... if you liked Texhnolyze... you will probably like this too... violence aside, it has the same flare that Texhnolyze had... and it's as serious as Texhnolyze as well... you can watch it for free and legal on Funimation's website... just give it a go... it is violent... it is shocking... but it isn't an over the top gore-fest... what it is, is brutally real... they don't shy away from showing you the results of wounds inflicted by a 3 foot long tempered steel blade... and to be honest, it's refreshing to not have it all masked over by clichéd "broken fire hydrant" gushes of blood or other such over the top techniques that just look silly... true, you see peoples guts... but really... open an anatomy book, and you will see similar imagery... it's shocking, but it's realistic. at the end of WW2 when Japan surrendered to the Allied forces... there were many instances of people committing ritual seppuku... particularly amongst military officers and older civilians who viewed defeat as dishonorable... that's Japanese culture... or at least it was, pre WW2... it's not a pretty thing, but it's history... it's what people used to do... what happens in the beginning of Shigurui... was still happening in Japan as little as 60 years ago... it's horrific... but it's real... the review touts the sex in this as some sort of porno or something... i really have to disagree... i found the sex scenes and nudity in this to be handled with a sense of discretion and artist sentiment... even when it is rape... it's not treated like some sort of eroticism for the viewers pleasure... there's no gaudy fan-service in this series... and i thank god for it... to be able to show nudity without "giggling like a pervy grade schooler" about it, is something i can really appreciate... it shows, both how beautiful and how horrific sexual acts can be... and it does it without turning it into some sort of explicit side show... as for how the samurai in this series are portrayed as violent beasts... well heaven forbid... i mean, they're only men who have devoted their whole life to the art of killing... imagine the personality that would do that... they spend their every waking hour, perfecting their ability to use a sword to kill someone... how can they be anything other than violent disturbed people... for once, to have samurai not portrayed as good honourable nice guys who only kill as a last resort, is such a relief i can't describe it... and to not have the clichéd phrases of the samurai code spouted ad-nausea is also a relief... the stories conclusion... it does tie off it's loose ends... spoiler[since Seigen defeated the Kogan style by killing the sensei... it's pretty obvious how that initial face off between him and Genosuke ended... if Seigen can kill the master of the style, then his apprentice would be no real match... they don't explain how Genosuke lost his arm, or how Seigen got so gimped in the legs... but really it doesn't matter... the story isn't about that... it's about Seigen... his betrayal at the hands of Kogan, his systematic revenge against all the members of the dojo... and how he eventually defeats the undefeated Kogan style... and becomes renowned... ] it's jarring the first time you see it... but it does make sense.. over all, Shigurui has become one of my "top shelf" series... it's not for the faint hearted... but it's a damn good series... |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
The Human Spider
Posts: 334 |
|
|||||||||||||||
That portrayal of samurais is one of the things I really liked about the show. While anti-heroes and moral relativity are extremely common these days, I thought SHIGURUI was unique in that it was one of the only truly amoral shows I've ever seen. However I did think it was a bit too artsy for its own good; I hated the disjointed timeline, and while I think your explanation of the probable conclusion makes a lot of sense, I still wish the ending was more conclusive. But I think the show's extremely stylized artisness worked really well in the sex scenes. I would have liked SHIGURUI a lot more if it were more straightforward, but then I'm the dense type that likes things more simple. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
|
|||||||||||||||
I kinda think Funimation should pay Carl some sort of royalties for writing sentences like that which ensure peeps like me will absolutely buy this series. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
Rolando_jose
 Posts: 240 Location: Ahhhh it's vacation time again! |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
I dont agree with this review. Onte thing is not to like it in a personal level, but those grades????
Art: D Story: D And homophobic? Maybe the reviewer wants to see it, because I did'nt see no homophobia in this history. I undestand that an open ended anime like this can seem a waste of time for some who needs to have the story closed or full circuled, but you need a brain in order to understand that... to bash a good animation, not so much. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
BleuVII
 Posts: 672 Location: Tokorozawa, Japan |
|
|||||||||||||||
I saw the back cover of one volume of the manga (I think it was 10?) and was sickened by it. Does that count as an informed opinion? I said it recently in another column that brought up this anime, but I see little difference between "entertainment" like this and the old Roman Coliseum. I weep that we live in a time where someone can legitimately make a living producing entertainment with this much gore and violence and pass it off as "artistic." I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I see "art" like this as new clothes for a very naked emperor. (For those that skimmed the above paragraph, I do not mean this as an attack on anyone's opinion, but as I respect people who say exactly what they mean, I figured I wouldn't beat around the bush.)
Ikillchicken, I mostly agree with what you said. Even a cursory glance through a history book will prove cruelty and violence are a huge part of the human story. But I don't agree that humans are no different than animals. A further reading of history will bring to light people like Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Sen no Rikyu, Confucius, St. Francis of Assisi, Jesus the Christ, etc. who throw the animal world on its head by actively working against hatred, violence, and "survival of the fittest." They remind us that humans, while capable of more violence than the animal world, are also capable of incredible kindness, selflessness, and redemption. As C.S. Lewis once said, "How monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been: how gloriously different are the saints." That's why stories like this, which from what I can tell has no "good guy," have little appeal to me. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
Unholy_Nny
 Posts: 622 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
[Massive fail comment removed]
Shigurui sounds like something I might want to see. I'm definitely going to check out the episodes on Funi's site. Last edited by Unholy_Nny on Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
posterior_praiser
 Posts: 296 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
This series doesn't sound like it's for me. I don't like to watch anime to see grotesque violence like that which is described. I watch anime to have fun, and this most definitely would not be fun for me to watch :/ I tend to be a little squeamish as well, so yeah. The bits with the mutilated ladies would not in likelihood sit very well.
|
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
Ian K
 Posts: 250 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
@Unholy_Nny
I believe you are confusing Martin Luther, the medieval religious reformer and namesake of Lutheranism, with Martin Luther King Jr., the black American preacher who played an instrumental part in the American civil rights movement. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
DKL
 Posts: 1956 Location: California, USA |
|
|||||||||||||||
As far as film is concerned, it's actually easier when the storyteller puts you in a position where you almost unconditionally feel sympathy for the characters (I think so anyway); Clint Eastwood kind of does this in Changeling and, while I was rooting for the good characters (which, sure as you're born, was a little more than obvious), I can't deny the fact that I probably was manipulated (hey, I like that movie, but it's not like I'm not gonna see the reality of it) and there aren't a lot of "grey tones" to the story (as it was obvious as to who the "black hats" and the "white hats" were). Not a big fan of Higurashi (1st season anyway, which is clumsy as hell... it's not even very moe for me), but I admittedly really like Elfen Lied... but not because it makes some kind of grand statement about humanity or whatever the hell people hold it in such high regard for, but because it's... well... Moe. If anything, the show is really exploitative (however, unlike Tatsuya Ishihara, who is pretty shameless about exploiting a viewer's propensity to moe, Mamoru Kanbe doesn't do it with a lot of skill or subtlety... which is strange considering that the dude worked under [who I consider to be] some of the great anime directors like Masayuki Kojima and Morio Asaka *Gunslinger Girl is VERY moe, but manages to not be ridiculous about it; Asaka tells the story with class*). As for "violence for violence" sake... I dunno... I posted my piece on Shigurui (talked about its view of violence and how it's navigated through the political realities of that world) and used comparative film examples in some detail, so I'll just run with that. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Rolando_jose
Posts: 240 Location: Ahhhh it's vacation time again! |
|
|||||||||||||||
In other words you need simple story telling: good guy... bad guy... Good guy wins. For me that's a "too much holywood" kinda entertainment |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
vashfanatic
 Posts: 3490 Location: Back stateside |
|
|||||||||||||||
Ho boy... the violence levels in Texhnolyze and Shigurui do not remotely compare. SHigurui is an over-the-top gorefest. The violence in this is very unrealistic, beginning with the disembowling scene in the first episode. The over-the-top quality is part of the "shocking" aspect you mentioned. Just because you liked Texhnolyze (I loved it) does not mean you will be able to stomach Shigurui. As noted, you can watch the episodes for free on Funimation's webpage. Just be prepared that this is not the same as Texhnolyze. At all. I apologize for the amount of italicizing here. And speaking of styles, rekishi, could you try using a period or some other form of terminal punctuation once in a while? The constant use of ellipses is very annoying to read. *removed* |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
Hey, Carl, and everyone else who wants to deliver mindless insults: Bamboo Dong takes note of the quality of the series; admits that though she wouldn't watch it again that it's worth viewing at least once, and never once mentions misogyny, homophobia or hatred for the handicapped. Is she one of those "gorehounds" like the rest of us pathetic humans?
While a lot of the Internet criticism against ANN can be ridiculous, it's nonsense like this review, as well as the overblown and ignorant reactions, that give this site a negative reputation in the eyes of some. Frankly, I do find it disappointing that two professional reviewers can regularly deliver unsubstantiated, lazy insults on this site, and would have thought Zac would be above letting that kind of idiocy slide. I'd also like to thank DKL (as usual) and rekishi for their posts, as well.
Okay, but what does this have to do with Shigurui? The logical conclusion of what you're describing is that people should be outraged at any display of violence, sexuality, corruption, death, et cetera. That doesn't make sense.
That scene is supposed to make you uncomfortable. The kind of insanity happened because Tokugawa Tadanaga, the Daimyo, genuinely wanted to see this. I don't see how you can complain about a piece of fiction that depicts reality and criticizes this depravity. I mean, why?
Yes, though the appeal of the two series are very different.
No, it most certainly doesn't.
And in that same thread I refuted your logical fallacy. You never bothered to respond. Maybe you can't tell the difference between fiction and reality, but for those of us that can and still enjoy Shigurui, we're more than mentally and socially capable, thank you very much.
Thank you, Mary Whitehouse!
That's ignoring shades of gray, as well as the fact that you cannot merely paint all tyrants in the same way. I mean, considering what you're said, you'd probably protest a film/series/novel about arguably the worst human being of the 20th century, Pol Pot.
I dunno; over-the-top, yeah, but that the violence is "very unrealistic"? Relative to reality, it can be argued, but anime/manga in general? |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Unholy_Nny
Posts: 622 |
|
|||||||||||||||
Holy balls, you're right! That's what I get for posting when I'm not wearing my glasses and all the words look blurry. What the hell, seriously... Head -> Desk |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
dragonknight1234
Posts: 8 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
The inherent problem with this review is that the reviewer didn't even understand the story. :/
spoiler[Like the main female character who made a conscious effort to defy her sociopath husband who was locally recognized as the most powerful man in the Shigurui character universe?]
spoiler[I presume this is supposed to refer to Seigen, but he was the one who was backstabbed. He was simply ambitious, and was so long before he was ever handicapped in the last episode.]
spoiler[You mean the guy who beat up the pub thugs in a show of badass-ery for dissing his dojo and a general show of frustration? Trail of bloody boys? Huh?] And humor? Why would this need humor? It's not that kind of story. Would you go watch "Requiem for a Dream" expecting a comedy? :/ |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
BleuVII
Posts: 672 Location: Tokorozawa, Japan |
|
|||||||||||||||
Yeah. I went on vacation. It was great. Kyoto, Nara, Himeji, and Osaka. When I got back, that particular "Shelf-Life" was already buried in the archives, and I didn't feel like looking back to see if someone had responded. The difference between our opinions is not logic, which you seem to suggest, but focus. You are focusing on details; I am looking at broader strokes. I can completely understand your viewpoint, and I'm not going to try to make you sound dumb. I'm sure that this particular piece has some really profound moments. They all do. That's why they are passed off as art. I am looking at market trends and the ever-shifting line of acceptability. I am alarmed at how FAR it has shifted. Having read this description, I can reasonably say that 20-30 years ago, Shigurui simply would not have been acceptable. Nobody would have published it. If it were published, it would be in the Adults Only section (known as the X-rated section back in those days). Now it's mainstream enough to have at least two regular columns on ANN talk about it. I personally think (as a Cultural Anthropologist who is wildly crazy about anime and manga), that we are seeing the exact same mindset at play here that was responsible for the ever-increasing level of violent entertainment back in the Roman Empire. The paradigm at work is analyzing something to see if it "crosses the line." Back in the early 90's, Mortal Kombat for the SNES and Genesis crossed a line. There was a parental outrage (aided along by conservative media). But you know what? The next time a game like MK came along, the line had shifted a little bit further. Incremental steps are a lot easier to deal with, and they can lead you a lot further than you want to go. The paradigm I've learned to work from is not to ask how far we can go with something, but to ask whether it's really beneficial. Take the finale for Code Geass R2 for example (really trying to keep this spoiler free). A main character gets stabbed through the chest. There's blood. That character leaves a smear of it behind as they die. Was it violent? Yeah. Was it beneficial? Yes. In a show with that many twists and turns, we needed to see the blood to know that the character was actually truly dead. From what I've heard just in THIS thread, the level of violence and sexuality in Shigurui was way over-the-top beyond what it needed to be in order to make the point it was trying to make. I could tell that simply by looking at the back cover of the manga, whose main purpose was to advertise that it was a super-violent manga. It's this excessiveness that I object to, and it's this excessiveness that makes me think that this "artistic" piece is simply trying to shift the line of acceptability one step further. I've heard that it doesn't glorify the violence, but I haven't heard from anybody what the main selling point is if it isn't the excessive violence. (I'm not talking about the plot of the story; I'm talking about the selling point that they use to get those DVDs off the shelves and into your player.) Maybe someone can enlighten me? I hope that clears up any doubts you may have about where my point of view comes from. For any of those that are wondering why I'm posting so much in a thread about a show I've decided not to watch, it's because I see this show as one of the extreme examples of this issue, and I'm honestly wondering how people are dealing with that extreme. Oh, and:
Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you... Thank you SO MUCH for simplifying what I said so concisely like that. I love it when people are considerate enough to do that. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group