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Fronzel
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:10 am
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Otaking09 wrote: | "D+" is definately NOT an acceptable grade. |
What does it mean for a critique to be "not acceptable"?
Otaking09 wrote: | I found Dragonaut to be one of those "100% average" series. |
Otaking09 wrote: | It deserves as much credit as Kaze no Stigma, or an equally fun show. |
"100% average" is "fun"?
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luffypirate
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3186
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:27 am
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TheTheory wrote: |
jmfsilenthill wrote: | Gonzo...why do you burn me so?? ....Seriously though I don't understand how a show like this actually got licensed, when there are infinitely better shows out ther. I guess I know the anwser to that.....I guess fan service (boobs)=sales?? Is that how it works? It's a clusterf**k of epic proportions.
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I'll tell you why--it's because FUNI and Gonzo are in bed together. Which, so long as FUNI only paid turd sandwich prices for it, I could care less about. |
FUNi better gtfo before it gets the clap. Gonzo has been quite a failure lately. They may pay turdy prices for their Gonzo licenses, but I guarantee they are going to get some craptastically low sales for their releases.
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Axaul Conners
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:40 am
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Yet again GONZO has not surprised me in developing yet another mediocre effort; a series which cannot sell itself beyond having a Shrek-ism style "from the studio that made..." tag to it.
The more crappy a series seems, the more they emphasise that it was GONZO that animated it. I even hear rabid fanboys get excited over a series just because GONZO produced it.
I feel that GONZO has been one of the most overexposed studios in the last decade, mostly because for every Gankutsuou and Last Exile, they have something like 5 Dragonauts and FF:Us to clutter the list.
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Scamp
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 97
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:33 am
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Gonzo are pretty much dead already. They were delisted from the Tokyo stock exchange, their online store no longer exists and with Saki and Shangri-La finished, they have no anime currently in production. They cancelled their plans to adapt the Alive manga. So yeah, Gonzo is pretty much dead. Much as Last Exile was the symbol of their glory days, Dragonaut is the symbol of their collapse
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Ktimene's Lover
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 2242
Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert)
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:50 am
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With an average rating on dub and sub, Key, which language do you recommend I start with?
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:19 am
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Scamp wrote: | So yeah, Gonzo is pretty much dead. Much as Last Exile was the symbol of their glory days, Dragonaut is the symbol of their collapse |
Well, I don't think Gonzo is dead. But if they are going to survive (at least for the short term) it will be by doing in-between animation and what-have-you for other studios, not making their own hit shows. As far as I can tell, they aren't doing anything for the Winter Season, which is pretty sad.
They have given us some good shows over the years, and animated many more. I think I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed Speed Grapher, which got a lot of unfair hate in my opinion. There is the surprisingly good (and yet irritatingly flawed) Bokurano, although Gonzo was just doing the animation on that. Same with Full Metal Panic! (alright, but not nearly as good as its sequels) and Gantz (so much promise, so badly executed). Other notable titles that I personally think highly of are Romeo × Juliet (very enjoyable though I don't care for the badly-done ending), the much better-done Basilisk, and the utterly sublime Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Christo. I'm still withholding judgement on Red Garden.
If they bowed out now it would be a rather poor end to a fairly good company. Some of their shows I really don't "get" (boring Last Exile, bad Shangri-La, weak Pumpkins Scissors), but for what they've done they deserve better. Well, unless they ran themselves into the ground with bad management decisions; I don't really follow that sort of thing.
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Otaking09
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 637
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:53 am
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Quote: | "100% average" is "fun"? |
Yes it is fun.
Think about it. Do you ALWAYS want to watch animes that deliberately "try" to teach a message, which often doesn't work, because someone has already done it before.
Average animes are fun, because they're not trying to do that, and instead, they're just telling a story. A simple story. What's wrong wth that?
Quote: | They have given us some good shows over the years, and animated many more. I think I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed Speed Grapher, which got a lot of unfair hate in my opinion. There is the surprisingly good (and yet irritatingly flawed) Bokurano, although Gonzo was just doing the animation on that. Same with Full Metal Panic! (alright, but not nearly as good as its sequels) and Gantz (so much promise, so badly executed). Other notable titles that I personally think highly of are Romeo × Juliet (very enjoyable though I don't care for the badly-done ending), the much better-done Basilisk, and the utterly sublime Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Christo. I'm still withholding judgement on Red Garden. |
Speed Grapher was really good, in my opinion. This site rated the story poorly for the LONGEST time.
Haven't seen Bokurano, and haven't finished FMP!
Gantz seems interesting, and Romeo x Juliet is one of my favorite animes...
Basilisk seemed predictable, and EVERYONE loves Gankutsuou.
I do want to see Red Garden.
Overall, Gonzo is one of my favorite studios, for they created NHK and Saikano.
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vashfanatic
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3490
Location: Back stateside
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:18 am
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Quote: | A consumer advocate once said, “if you irradiate poop, it will be sterile, but it's still poop.” That line could pretty much apply to Dragonaut: The Resonance, too. Although it does try to doctor up its content with CG-laden battles, fan service, and some attempts at more involved characterization, those are not sufficient to overcome the fact that the series is, at heart, a pile of crap. |
Oh Mr. Martin, I couldn't have put it better myself! Dragonaut tries so very very hard to be good, which is why I can't bring myself to hate it. I just want to pat its metaphorical head, give it a metaphorical cookie and say "There, there, you did your best!" But for all my pity, it still is not good.
Otaking09 wrote: | Think about it. Do you ALWAYS want to watch animes that deliberately "try" to teach a message, which often doesn't work, because someone has already done it before. |
But that's the thing: it does try to cram a message down your throat. In the second half. In a failed attempt at a Gainax Ending...As I said, it's really not good, no matter how hard it tries to be.
In terms of GONZO's "decline"... they've always done a range of stuff that varies from brilliant to crap, it just seems they haven't done a brilliant series since Gankutstuou (though I've yet to see Romeo and Juliet, which I've heard is very good even if it's not a masterpiece). As fans we keep coming back hoping to get one their gems again - and nine times out of ten are disappointed. Hence the hate comes from the disappointment. There are a lot worse series out there than Dragonaut, we just didn't want it from GONZO.
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Otaking09
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 637
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:30 am
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Quote: | it does try to cram a message down your throat. In the second half |
Thanks for spoiling the ending! I've only made it past 10!
jk But seriously, at this point, we should stop looking for "masterpieces" and just look for a fun show!
Many disagree, but, no one can recreate something that's been done, it's just not possible...
Quote: | Hence the hate comes from the disappointment. There are a lot worse series out there than Dragonaut, we just didn't want it from GONZO. |
vashfanatic... I couldn't agree more...
Gonzo is one of my absolute favorite studios, because of their efforts. Nearly everone of their series impressed me for one reason or other. They are capable of creating awe-inspiring CG, writing brilliant original stories, their superb adaptions, and doing it all with a typical anime budget.
But... times have changed. Stories are harder to tell. And the budgeting to tell those stories doesn't help motivate staff.
We just need to stop stressing over 100% originality and concentrate on enjoyment. That's really all it boils down to...
Oh, Romeo x Juliet is VERY good, I've only seen half. People say the ending sucks, but who cares??? I've learned from Martian Successor Nadesico, that the overall journey is ultimately better than the ending.
Quote: | it just seems they haven't done a brilliant series since Gankutstuou |
Welcome to the NHK is a masterpiece in my book! Saikano fits the quota too.
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Fronzel
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:42 am
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Otaking09 wrote: | ...times have changed. Stories are harder to tell. |
?
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Myaow
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:22 pm
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Otaking09 wrote: | Think about it. Do you ALWAYS want to watch animes that deliberately "try" to teach a message, which often doesn't work, because someone has already done it before.
Average animes are fun, because they're not trying to do that, and instead, they're just telling a story. A simple story. What's wrong wth that? |
It is entirely possible for a story to have no strings, no deep meanings and little development attached and still be really, really good. (eg, Baccano!)
It is just as possible for a story to have no strings or deep meanings attached and be awful. I haven't seen this show, but I think the reviewer isn't judging the show because it doesn't "mean anything" but because it's just bad at what it's trying to do.
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vashfanatic
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3490
Location: Back stateside
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:04 pm
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Otaking09 wrote: | Thanks for spoiling the ending! I've only made it past 10! |
Hey, at least I didn't tell you what the message is. I'll let you experience the wall-banging for yourself.
Quote: | jk But seriously, at this point, we should stop looking for "masterpieces" and just look for a fun show! |
Yeah, but about the only real fun in Dragonaut is making fun of it. :p
Quote: | Many disagree, but, no one can recreate something that's been done, it's just not possible... |
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I don't want a "recreation" of Gankutsuou or Last Exile, I want something equally as good.
Quote: | Gonzo is one of my absolute favorite studios, because of their efforts. Nearly everone of their series impressed me for one reason or other. They are capable of creating awe-inspiring CG, writing brilliant original stories, their superb adaptions, and doing it all with a typical anime budget. |
But by your own admission, you've hardly seen any GONZO series, especially recent ones. GONZO was one of my favorite studios; it's been replaced with Production I.G., Manglobe, and BONES, who still continue to deliver quality storytelling and animation rather than throwing out a lot of crap like this.
Quote: | But... times have changed. Stories are harder to tell. And the budgeting to tell those stories doesn't help motivate staff. |
Wha-huh? If you mean "anime fans are all idiots who just want fan service-y stuff that they can buy toys for and story has to take a back-seat," then I suppose that's true. But you can still do better than Dragonaut under those restrictions.
Quote: | We just need to stop stressing over 100% originality and concentrate on enjoyment. That's really all it boils down to... |
As someone already noted, I enjoyed Baccano! - hell, I loved it. But it also had a strong story, strong characters, and was highly original. Some of us enjoy originality.
I actually couldn't enjoy Dragonaut because I felt it squandered so much potential on lousy characterization, a predictable plot, bad CG, and ridiculous fan-service (in case you can't tell, I agree with every word of Mr. Martin's review). It could have been so much better - should have been so much better, because it's GONZO - only it winds up being a giant mess.
Quote: | People say the ending sucks, but who cares??? I've learned from Martian Successor Nadesico, that the overall journey is ultimately better than the ending. |
I'm the exact opposite. A lousy ending will ruin a series for me, especially if it's been good up to that point. Indeed, most of the series I truly utterly HATE are ones that let me down like that (Chrono Crusade comes in a roaring first). Dragonaut, on the other hand, was bad from the beginning, so I can forgive it and laugh at the idiocy.
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kefkaownsall
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 189
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:03 pm
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I only saw 4eps but they sucked,
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ArthurFrDent
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 466
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:22 pm
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I am always highly amused what things I strangely adore, that everyone else hates... shrug. Nobody mentions how curvy these buxom ladies are... the character designs are interesting, but they grew on me for some reason. A woman couldn't stand on ankles that thin...
all in all, I have decided to simply put this one firmly in the guilty pleasure column and kick back and enjoy.
The big however for Funi is the PRICE. Uh, guys? It's a lot.
Shrug. Guilty Pleasure. Kinda like a crazy broad like Garnet. Fun. But she'll kill you later.
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Kit-Tsukasa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 930
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:57 pm
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There's probably a reason as to why fansub groups did not bother translating episode 26 of the series and this review only further proves that point.
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