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NEWS: Manga Aggregator to Close as OpenManga Plans Launch


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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:22 pm Reply with quote
kurosabato wrote:
They have to start from zero, with zero publisher support, and if the ideia work, they problably goin in.


They do not have zero, of course ... they have the scanlators who are willing to jump the fence to the legal side. That's the real gamble in the business model ... whether crowdsourcing can bring the cost of localization down for legal online distribution, to maximize the revenue per view that goes to the mangaka.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:23 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Now this is the way to do it. I'm not surprised to see 70 artists are interested in the project. It allows them full control of their works and to help establish a fan base in order to provide sources of revenue that's not a dead tree.

70 may seem a small number now, but if this site's successful, that number will explode.


The number of artists they get on board is entirely irrelevant if all they end up with is third-stringer crap. They need to get the core artists on board, the ones currently published in the majors. Without the artists that actually produce quality work they have nothing.
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tenebrusmke79



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 86
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
Quote:
Now this is the way to do it. I'm not surprised to see 70 artists are interested in the project. It allows them full control of their works and to help establish a fan base in order to provide sources of revenue that's not a dead tree.

70 may seem a small number now, but if this site's successful, that number will explode.


The number of artists they get on board is entirely irrelevant if all they end up with is third-stringer crap. They need to get the core artists on board, the ones currently published in the majors. Without the artists that actually produce quality work they have nothing.
At this time, there is no information as to who was approached or who has agreed to come on board. We don't know, and the Open Manga team isn't saying anything at this time. We will know more in the future, probably when the site opens up while in beta. The artists/authors that were contacted could very well be like someone like Oda, or Tite, or Kishimoto or someone like that. Right now, all we can do is speculate.
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Revolutionary



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 601
Location: Too Far South
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:52 pm Reply with quote
tenebrusmke79 wrote:
Ohoni wrote:
Quote:
Now this is the way to do it. I'm not surprised to see 70 artists are interested in the project. It allows them full control of their works and to help establish a fan base in order to provide sources of revenue that's not a dead tree.

70 may seem a small number now, but if this site's successful, that number will explode.


The number of artists they get on board is entirely irrelevant if all they end up with is third-stringer crap. They need to get the core artists on board, the ones currently published in the majors. Without the artists that actually produce quality work they have nothing.
At this time, there is no information as to who was approached or who has agreed to come on board. We don't know, and the Open Manga team isn't saying anything at this time. We will know more in the future, probably when the site opens up while in beta. The artists/authors that were contacted could very well be like someone like Oda, or Tite, or Kishimoto or someone like that. Right now, all we can do is speculate.


Not true. They noted in their actual article that the big companies didn't take their ideas seriously. Oda, Tite, and Kishimoto will not be a part of this since they're under Shueisha.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
Quote:
Now this is the way to do it. I'm not surprised to see 70 artists are interested in the project. It allows them full control of their works and to help establish a fan base in order to provide sources of revenue that's not a dead tree.

70 may seem a small number now, but if this site's successful, that number will explode.


The number of artists they get on board is entirely irrelevant if all they end up with is third-stringer crap. They need to get the core artists on board, the ones currently published in the majors. Without the artists that actually produce quality work they have nothing.


The idea that artists line up in major distribution purely by quality is a massive oversimplification - there are also both bigger and smaller niches and genre that are easier to sell in the US and harder to sell in the US.

Indeed, if they are aggregated by one or several legit sites {cough}ANN{cough} they can well be viewed alongside some big drawcards that the publishers are releasing online as part of their pirate suppression efforts. Then the Crowdsourced Online Publisher does not need to provide the tentpoles, but rather specializes in providing the variety that the major publishers are highly unlikely to be able to provide.
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Zerfy



Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:06 am Reply with quote
from something as simple as translating a chapter and allowing the public to read, it's unbelievable that it has been blown to such proportions. what happened to the good old days where we were able to read manga in peace. T.T

first there was the dragonball, astroboy, DoA,etc movies, now we have this manga issues. why do i get the feeling that companies are trying to take over Japan Shocked
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14773
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:18 am Reply with quote
Kaesebrezen wrote:

Quote:
There are series for 700 - 1200 yen or even more.

Tell you what, they're still cheaper than Naruto for us.
Quote:
Not only do English publishers have to deal with licensing fees and a niche market

High prices are not a way out of the niche market...


You got it the other way around: it's not the high prices that make it a niche market; it's because it is a niche market that makes the prices high.


Kaesebrezen wrote:

Quote:
They are what they have to be in order to make a profit.

Sure they are, but that makes them very unattractive to buy.
And the result of this, thanks to the economy crisis, the few buyers we have get even less.


Unless a company has a vast amount of cash reserves, selling something at a loss or at even for an extended period of time is not good business, regardless how attractive it is to buy. Heck, the more customers buy, the more money the company loses. Many internet startups during the late 90s internet "boom" tried that method to sell a lot of stuff and get a large customer base. Unless they got a 2nd or 3rd infusion of cash like Amazon did, they soon ran out of cash and were never heard from again (they had to pay back money borrowed, which has interest rate).


Zerfy wrote:

first there was the dragonball, astroboy, DoA,etc movies, now we have this manga issues. why do i get the feeling that companies are trying to take over Japan Shocked


Japan has always been about mega-companies - don't you observe enough anime or manga?! Laughing

(Seriously though, Japan is more controlled by few mega-companies and heavy industries. It's harder for a startup or smaller company to make a mark in Japan.)
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:30 am Reply with quote
Quote:

The idea that artists line up in major distribution purely by quality is a massive oversimplification - there are also both bigger and smaller niches and genre that are easier to sell in the US and harder to sell in the US.


I'm just saying, if they don't get Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Psyren, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc. then there's just no point. There's no need for some online manga distributor that just has fanfics made by also-rans and wannabes.
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kurosabato



Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:04 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:

I'm just saying, if they don't get Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Psyren, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc. then there's just no point. There's no need for some online manga distributor that just has fanfics made by also-rans and wannabes.

To read Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc I buy the official releases, but to read online, OpenManga is a good idea to try new authors. Free, fresh and legal !!!
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:00 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:

I'm just saying, if they don't get Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Psyren, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc. then there's just no point. There's no need for some online manga distributor that just has fanfics made by also-rans and wannabes.


Why not just read the legit releases? It's not like you won't be able to buy those. Psyren just got licensed for that matter.
animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2010-06-11 Listen to this week's ANNCast btw, it's really good on this topic
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Scirel



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:42 am Reply with quote
kurosabato wrote:
Ohoni wrote:

I'm just saying, if they don't get Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Psyren, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc. then there's just no point. There's no need for some online manga distributor that just has fanfics made by also-rans and wannabes.

To read Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc I buy the official releases, but to read online, OpenManga is a good idea to try new authors. Free, fresh and legal !!!


The whole reason why scanlations EXIST is because the legit releases are SLOW.

I technically buy the legit releases TWICE (Once in SJ USA, once as a GN), and even I read scanlations because of this fact.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Zerfy wrote:
from something as simple as translating a chapter and allowing the public to read, it's unbelievable that it has been blown to such proportions. what happened to the good old days where we were able to read manga in peace. T.T


What happened was first scanlators started doing titles that were licensed, undermining sales, causing slowing release schedules and dropped titles, and then using the slowing release schedules and dropped titles to justify what they were doing.

And then the aggregators started just ripping published titles to get more views.

As Erica Friedman said:
Quote:
Scanlation is, everyone will agree, a big problem. The comics publishing industry is losing sales even as downloads of scans hits numbers that most comics publishers can only dream about. The comics/manga journalists agree, talking as they do to the publishers and creators - who feel particularly angry in regards to the wholesale refusal of their "fans" to respect their IP rights. And the pundits who discuss the quickly disappearing value of copyright and IP ownership agree.

...
Quote:
In order to fix the problem, we have to step back and realize that scanlations are not the "problem" - they were the solution.

I'm speaking here as a fan of manga, comics from Japan. When I started to read manga there were - to be generous - very few titles licensed and translated.

The fans who loved manga saw the problem clearly - there was a lot of cool stuff being drawn in Japan and very little of it was translated into English. So, they formed groups called "circles" - passionate volunteers who pooled skills and resources into scanning in manga and translating them. This way, they could share the series they loved with other people who would never otherwise get a chance to read them. It was (and largely still is) a love for a title that leads a person to scan it - not a desire to harm, but a deep desire to share and expand the audience.

Scanlation was the solution to the problem. It wouldn't hurt anyone - none of those books (or anime series) were ever going to make it over here, so no harm, no foul. At least one person had to buy the book (or VHS tape) in order to render and scan it, so there was at least one additional sale to "pay" for the work. No scanlation circle ever made a cent on their efforts. They gave their love away for free, so they could call it fair use. And they were very specific - if you paid for a version of their scans or subs, you were ripped off and you were committing a copyright violation,

Then the digital revolution really hit and suddenly more series than ever were being scanned and subbed. It isn't hard to get a scanlation - all one needs is a browser and a search engine. What had formerly been distributed to dozens of people was now being distributed to thousands or tens of thousands worldwide. Hits on popular scanlation aggregation websites go into the millions, bringing at least one such site onto Google's list of top-visited sites.

And, in the middle of this, distribution companies started to license more series than ever. But now it was even easier to scan than before - often a scanned raw version is available, so no original copy is bought. Scanlators can put out a whole volume in days in just about any language a group might want. And the more popular, the more ubiquitous the content becomes, its economic value drops ever closer to zero.

What we need now is not a solution to the problem, but a solution to the solution.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Scirel wrote:
The whole reason why scanlations EXIST is because the legit releases are SLOW.


And legit releases are SLOW in part because scanlations exist. Releases can only proceed as quickly as the market will support, and scanlating licensed work undermines the market, slowing releases.

The actual reason scanlations exist is because titles were not licensed at all. The scanning of a licensed title is something that an "ethical scanlation group" simply did not do. The argument was, "yes, its a copyright violation, but the purpose of copyright is to protect the ability of artists to generate income from their work, and this does not really interfere with that. So its illegal, but not unethical".

Obviously, scanlating licensed work, or work clearly likely to be licensed, does not have that argument to fall back upon, so instead cheap excuses that boil down to "we are ripping off the work because we want to and we can" are offered.

As far as what to do about it, obviously what is needed is a business model that does not have the high overhead costs of the existing print publishing model, because it is those high overhead costs that are the reason for the slow release schedules.

If the overhead costs are low enough to be made back out of subscriptions and ad revenue before the next serial has been released in Japan, then the release schedule can be nearly as fast as scanlators.

If the crowdsource translators have access to artwork pre-publication, the release schedule can be faster than any scanlation group can match.
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benelori



Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:34 pm Reply with quote
I think this is a great idea...all great projects begin as small projects at first, but I think MH has the imagination and expertise necessary to implement this in a successful way...I fully support OpenManga
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:19 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
Quote:

The idea that artists line up in major distribution purely by quality is a massive oversimplification - there are also both bigger and smaller niches and genre that are easier to sell in the US and harder to sell in the US.


I'm just saying, if they don't get Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hitman Reborn, Psyren, Negima, Fairy Tail, etc. then there's just no point. There's no need for some online manga distributor that just has fanfics made by also-rans and wannabes.


Last point first, yes, there is a need for some online manga distributor that has commercially successful manga that is not viable for print publication in English translation.

There is a lot of successful commercial manga in Japan that are neither big best sellers nor fanfics, and which are not viable for professional translation and publication. That fact that its not available brings fans of the manga who can read Japanese to form scanlator groups to share them with those who cannot. Give those same people a legal outlet, and that helps to drain the swamp that breeds unethical scanlator groups.

And your first point: its not either or, its both. Even if a number of the big blockbusters get legit online alternatives, which is already happening, the sites making those online alternatives available will suffer by comparison with the bootleg sites because of the wide variety available from the groups scanlating unlicensed works.

If OneManga can viably crowdsource translations and feed royalties back to professional mangaka who are not creating the big hits, they create variety. Since its produced legally and available to other legal sites, they can be used to increase the variety side by side with the big blockbusters that are available online and in regular print runs.
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