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CCSYueh wrote:

My personal theory is the Japanese like using nazis in anime because the nazis were worse than they were in WWII. (nazis make the Japanese look better) I have a certain affection for nazi baddies in anime because they always seem to make them so ruthless. If it weren't for those rotten Germans using them, of course the Japanese would have been good guys.

Uh not really, you obviously are kind of downplaying the atrocities the Japanese commited, in terms of a death toll both Japan and Germany are about equal. Both performed human experimentation on people. why do you think that the Koreans and Chinese still hate Japan?

Their are several anime that have people based off of Imperial Japan, the most obvious is the Plants which becomes a military dicatorship under Patrick Zala, and begans to commit genocide upon the Earth. The ZAFT military gunning down surrendering Earth Alliance soldiers in both series makes the connection obvious.

FMA also has part of the story based off the invasion of China by the Japanese, in particular Unit 731, a part of the military that performed human experimentation on the Chinese.

I'm in the "don't like Hetalia" camp. I got through the first chapter or two of the manga, got through the first episode, and on both I went "What the HELL is going on in this?" Nothing should be so confusing that it makes the watcher/reader run the other way.

Let's put the "offended" perspective into something that hits a little closer to home for a lot of Americans: If they portrayed England starving Ireland, and turned it into a comedy, how many people here would be offended? I would be, and several other million Irish that are descended from those that were forced from their homeland, or died trying to get away would be too.

Had it *not* been set in WWII, I might be more inclined to enjoy this, but the whole idea has just put a bad taste in my mouth - now with the cosplay stories, it just makes me sick.

On a final tangent, now that I'm learning Funimation actually made the dub absolutely vulgar, I'm turned off completely from giving it any sort of new chance. That just reminds me of the days of ADV and how they'd throw expletives in any chance they could. *shivers at the memory of the DHY OAVs*

Huge supporter of Funi, but I'm not buying this one, and I'm disappointed that Funi thought they had to go to such great lengths to attract viewers. Rolling Eyes

House Of Five Leaves was my absolute favourite this spring season. I didn't find it boring at all, but maybe that's because i watched it after my inner 10 year old's bedtime. Wink

Charred Knight wrote:

Uh not really, you obviously are kind of downplaying the atrocities the Japanese commited, in terms of a death toll both Japan and Germany are about equal. Both performed human experimentation on people. why do you think that the Koreans and Chinese still hate Japan?

No.
I mentioned in a prior post on this thread I most of my Asian (Filipino mostly) co-workers have no love for the Japanese nor do my parents who grew up in the WWII era. I was brought up with comments like "The Japanese were in peace talks in Washington when Pearl Harbor was attacked.""The Japanese do everything backwards-no means yes, yes means no" & ALL that WWII era crap.

But if you watch stuff like Kishin Corps & other anime from that decade or so, it seems the Japanese were duped into being bad. I DO NOT BUY THAT. I've watched the history channel. As I said, I thought So Korea was sort of thin skinned over the whole Hetalia thing because it IS just a cartoon. God knows Americans have been done up pretty badly in anime. The only reason I could see for such an overblown reaction is the whole Japanese have never really taken responsibility for their actions of WWII. I remember the furor over that war memorial or honor they gave that general that angered some of the other Asian communities because he was pretty high up in the atrocities a few years back.

Basically everyone outside of Japan knows what Japan did, but because of how the end of the war came down, the Japanese apparently have no problem officially pretending they did no wrong. I understand we cut deals because we wanted the results of that human experimentation so the Japanese weren't raked over the coals as thoroughly as the Germans were. Hell, we're still hunting Nazis, but nothing's really been done to the Japanese "war criminals" because they were largely rehabilitated/forgiven/pleabargained/whatever we did. Stories of Japanese soldiers found holed up in caves on islands are largely treated as jokes. Nazis are still held up as THE GREATEST EVIL, yet most german soldiers were just doing their duty/following orders. Hitler was evil & crazy (Probably crazy first & thus managed to do a lot of evil based on his insane vision of the world). Hussein was evil in the ethnic cleansing he did. Kim Jong Il is crazy & evil. Pol Pot, Idi Amin-there are TONS of evil rulers out there & the level of evil is weighed in the number of people they slaughtered & the hardships they put people through, but Japan after WWII managed to whisk it all under the carpet.

From Wiki, but it's what I've always heard-that the Japanese Emperor was not held resposible, that somehow it was a handful of Japanese military guys responsible for all of it.
Yeah, right.

Quote:

The Japanese Emperor Hirohito, and all members of the imperial family such as Prince Asaka, were not prosecuted for any involvement in any of the three categories of crimes. As many as 50 suspects, such as Nobusuke Kishi, who later became Prime Minister, and Yoshisuke Aikawa, head of the zaibatsu Nissan, and future leader of the Chuseiren, were charged but released without ever being brought to trial in 1947 and 1948. Shiro Ishii received immunity in exchange for data gathered from his experiments on live prisoners.

Hetalia is still just a comic strip. It cannot in any way, shape or form make any official apology for the crimes committed by the Japanese leaders in WWII. It's also not going to change the way manga & anime can put Japan as #1 in any contest.

darcerin wrote:

Let's put the "offended" perspective into something that hits a little closer to home for a lot of Americans: If they portrayed England starving Ireland, and turned it into a comedy, how many people here would be offended? I would be, and several other million Irish that are descended from those that were forced from their homeland, or died trying to get away would be too.

I'm pretty sure we've heard jokes about all sorts of things so I'm sure someone somewhere has done a story about what you're talking about & it might even be humor. WWII is HUGE. I can't see it ever going away as a popular topic though one would expect after all these years, it would have. I still see more on WWII than Viet Nam. It's like The American Revolution-it seems there will always be history buffs who want to see new discussions of the topic.
If you're the type that's offended, then you shouldn't read or watch it.You need to stay away from Mel Brooks, particularly The Producers, but he's thrown Hitler jokes in other shows as I recall.

darcerin wrote:

On a final tangent, now that I'm learning Funimation actually made the dub absolutely vulgar, I'm turned off completely from giving it any sort of new chance. That just reminds me of the days of ADV and how they'd throw expletives in any chance they could. *shivers at the memory of the DHY OAVs*

I'm less a Funi cheerleader.
I'm glad they are bringing stuff over, but their dubs run much flatter than ADV's. I hate their "Re-versioned" tag because it speaks volumes of their (lack of) respect for the original. I am usually thrilled if we get full cast credits in Japanese which I really happen to believe should be expected (How would their actors like not being credited half the time?), but they have problems even keeping the English cast straight in credits. (I liked Jerry Jewel beuing credited with a female role on the 4th Case Closed set but noted it was credited to the Conan VA on the next ep). There seems no reason for some of the changes in the plots other than their idea they can do it better/they are more talented than the original writers.

The raunchy stuff often seems forced or ill-fitting. It's the dif between a talented comedian making actual funny jokes including swearing vs a lesser comic where the swearing seems to be the punchline. It's rough & unnatural in many places as though they are trying too hard to be cool

kuroraka wrote:

House Of Five Leaves was my absolute favourite this spring season. I didn't find it boring at all, but maybe that's because i watched it after my inner 10 year old's bedtime. Wink

I thoroughly enjoyed it as well, and plan to preorder the DVDs (assuming they're ever released - this isn't going to be a big seller). The pacing reminded me of Mushishi, which I've watched and rewatched. The Five Leaves story unfolds glacially as those incremental revelations that Erin notes add up, but I found the characters and their circumstances worth watching in their own right. I'd be all over a second season, if I lived in some parallel universe where the first season had performed well in the ratings.

Oddly enough, leisurely pacing killed Shiki for me. I wasn't able to connect with even one of the characters, and I had to punt when I realized I couldn't remember any of the names from one ep to the next.

darcerin wrote:

I'm in the "don't like Hetalia" camp. I got through the first chapter or two of the manga, got through the first episode, and on both I went "What the HELL is going on in this?" Nothing should be so confusing that it makes the watcher/reader run the other way.

Let's put the "offended" perspective into something that hits a little closer to home for a lot of Americans: If they portrayed England starving Ireland, and turned it into a comedy, how many people here would be offended? I would be, and several other million Irish that are descended from those that were forced from their homeland, or died trying to get away would be too.

Had it *not* been set in WWII, I might be more inclined to enjoy this, but the whole idea has just put a bad taste in my mouth - now with the cosplay stories, it just makes me sick.

On a final tangent, now that I'm learning Funimation actually made the dub absolutely vulgar, I'm turned off completely from giving it any sort of new chance. That just reminds me of the days of ADV and how they'd throw expletives in any chance they could. *shivers at the memory of the DHY OAVs*

Huge supporter of Funi, but I'm not buying this one, and I'm disappointed that Funi thought they had to go to such great lengths to attract viewers. Rolling Eyes

I'm fine with people not liking the show, and I do see where it's offensive, but you appear to be misinformed. You seem to be operating under the assumption that Hetalia makes fun of tragedies and atrocities (" If they portrayed England starving Ireland, and turned it into a comedy, how many people here would be offended?"), and that it only covers WWII ("Had it *not* been set in WWII, I might be more inclined to enjoy this")

With the exception of the dub, Hetalia doesn't talk about the atrocities much, let alone make gags out of them. Some people claim that's "glossing over" these things, but I don't see it that way. As you said, trying to make these events funny would be tasteless, and the creator knows that and doesn't go there. It's more making fun of stupid tactical decisions. Things like Germany breaking their pact with Russia during WWII and attacking them in the winter. (That particular event hasn't come up yet, but it's that sort of thing)

The majority of the series doesn't even take place during WWII at all. A lot of it is WWI, earlier, or modern day. The main storyline is only 5 chapters in and the first chapter is WWI. Only the other 4 main chapters have anything to do with WWII and it leaves off before the war even starts. That and the island episodes that are anime-only are the only WWII-centric things in the series.

It's fine if it's still not your thing, but so many people have taken extreme offense to the title based purely on misinformation, so I wanted to be sure that wasn't the case here. As a rule of thumb it's always best to actually read or watch a series before judging it =)

neocloud9 wrote:

Korea isn't in the anime at all, but in the manga, his big shtick is taking credit for other Asian nations' inventions.

Oh ouch ._.

Maryohki wrote:

With the exception of the dub, Hetalia doesn't talk about the atrocities much, let alone make gags out of them. Some people claim that's "glossing over" these things, but I don't see it that way. As you said, trying to make these events funny would be tasteless, and the creator knows that and doesn't go there. It's more making fun of stupid tactical decisions. Things like Germany breaking their pact with Russia during WWII and attacking them in the winter. (That particular event hasn't come up yet, but it's that sort of thing)

I've been told Russia is scary. Or that most of the other characters are spooked by him.
One can't really help what they do with the dub. It seems Funi tries the Adult Swim humor dub for as much as they can

Quote:

Korea isn't in the anime at all, but in the manga, his big shtick is taking credit for other Asian nations' inventions.

You mean sort of like all the shows I watched as a child in the 1960's where the Russian character always claimed everything was created in Russia? Didn't Chekov do it at least a couple times on Star Trek?

CCSYueh wrote:

Maryohki wrote:

With the exception of the dub, Hetalia doesn't talk about the atrocities much, let alone make gags out of them. Some people claim that's "glossing over" these things, but I don't see it that way. As you said, trying to make these events funny would be tasteless, and the creator knows that and doesn't go there. It's more making fun of stupid tactical decisions. Things like Germany breaking their pact with Russia during WWII and attacking them in the winter. (That particular event hasn't come up yet, but it's that sort of thing)

I've been told Russia is scary. Or that most of the other characters are spooked by him.
One can't really help what they do with the dub. It seems Funi tries the Adult Swim humor dub for as much as they can

Quote:

Korea isn't in the anime at all, but in the manga, his big shtick is taking credit for other Asian nations' inventions.

You mean sort of like all the shows I watched as a child in the 1960's where the Russian character always claimed everything was created in Russia? Didn't Chekov do it at least a couple times on Star Trek?

mm, I think Russia's a more offensive character than South Korea... but then you have to take in South Korea's history with Japan, and then things get kind of wonky. My Russian friend balked a little at the description of Russia on wikipedia, for example... I wish I could have told her otherwise, but that's actually a pretty accurate way to describe him. I mean, not that he's not my favourite character, because he is... but still!
I suppose every country could take offense at their characterization... just depends how sensitive you are. But some are a little worse than others >_>

I don't remember Chekov doing anything like that, but if he did it would be hilarious.

South Korea...Well, there were a few particular strips that have since been removed that depicted some rather...Offensive material. The one that I mostly remember is a situation where South Korea makes up several atrocities that Japan did to them, with Japan depicted as faultless. It went directly with the notion that Korea is lying about crimes Japan had previously committed.

So, he basically rises above the typical Hetalia standards. I just wish he could be implemented again with a stronger character.

SakechanBD wrote:

John Casey wrote:

Alright, so I'll break the combo and move away from this current Hetalia shitstorm: =.= Haven't we already once seen this shelf collection?

This is like the second repeat...

Have we?

It was in June:
animenewsnetwork.com/shelf-life/2010-06-08

Cranium wrote:

SakechanBD wrote:

John Casey wrote:

Alright, so I'll break the combo and move away from this current Hetalia shitstorm: =.= Haven't we already once seen this shelf collection?

This is like the second repeat...

Have we?

It was in June:
animenewsnetwork.com/shelf-life/2010-06-08

Funny you mention that repeat posting of a previously featured shelf collection, I just logged in to mention that just now...

Last edited by CCSYueh on Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

Saturn wrote:

I don't remember Chekov doing anything like that, but if he did it would be hilarious.

I'm talking the original tv series-Walter Koenig's Chekov, not the movie.
My sister concurs. She believes it goes back to a speech by Krushchev but isn't sure.
It was a pretty standard schtick in the 1960's for any Russian in a comedic portrayal which is probably why So Korea seems so thin-skinned. Russia took it all those years.
I can't say the half-American is all that impressive in Ping Pong Club (tall, blond, dumb, big BO problem).

Ojamajo LimePie wrote:

Sepherest wrote:

I'm glad Funimation tried to change things up a bit in the dub but to me it seems like it's really only for people that are extremely interested in the series.

Really? From the reactions I've seen, the dub has turned hardcore Hetalia fans off buying the DVDs. They're horrified by Funimation's strategy of making the dub "purposely vulgar and offensive." Moreover, they're extremely insulted to be referred to as a "certain demographic" for whom "the dub will be exactly what they're looking for." Umm, no. Whoever that "certain demographic" is, Funi, it's not people who were already Hetalia fans. At the very least, it's not me.

In truth it's not me either but almost a week later, now that the disappointment is not so glaringly fresh and having had time to mull it over I'm thinking more & more that, while I hate having to pay for the crap along with the good, dang it, I really do want Hetalia on DVD. If I thought Funi would take the negative fan reaction to this dub into consideration when doing the rest of the series I'd have less of an issue, though I suppose they've dubbed whatever they've acquired in such a manner already. I'm not sure I believe they (or any other company) really listen to fan input as long as they get your money anyway. But maybe they'll reconsider doing this to other series now, especially those with preexisting fandoms. So... in all honesty, I'll probably end up picking this up at some point despite my qualms. It's not near the top of my list anymore and maybe it'll be secondhand (I don't care if I get a bandana or not) but I do want that nugget of gold buried in the crap (okay, "gold" is overselling it but you get my point). I guess I just have to start working on a way to extract that dub and return it, via flaming paper bag, to Funi's doorstep.

X is one of my favorite series, but the manga is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the TV series. (I will pretend the movie doesn't exist.) If you enjoyed the TV series, definitely do check out the manga. It's quite different, and a whole lot better. Not to mention the art is breathtaking!

In the TV series, Fuuma (my favorite anime character of all-time, btw) is heavily villainized whereas in the manga, he does what he does because that is his role as a Dragon of Earth. The Dragons of Earth have a heart. (NATAKU~~~ T___T)

I highly recommend the manga, though it is incomplete and most likely will never be finished. (Though I'd like to believe it will one day!)

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