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Hey, Answerman! - Gender Rolls


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Sir Amyas Leigh



Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
how weird would it be if Dragon Ball Z took a time out to explain to the audience that Goten had Asperger's?


Crap I must still be in south park humor mode because this made me laugh like a jackass. ass burgers!
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purplepolecat



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:54 pm Reply with quote
In Death Note, L is a textbook Aspie, and Light is a textbook sociopath. It's never mentioned explicitly, but it's obvious if you are familiar with the disorders.

Radical Edward is also clearly on the autism spectrum.
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Meygaera



Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 324
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Lord Bryonius Maximus wrote:
...wherever you are, wherever you're from, if you think something is offensive, or sexist, don't buy it. Don't read it. Reward the things that aren't sexist. Tell others to do the same. Vote with your dollars and your heart. Maybe, just maybe, when manga creators realize that certain sexist attitudes make their work unsaleable in other parts of the world, they'll reconsider their strategy.


That's like saying don't buy almost every manga in existence. Besides we all know we aren't the target audience of this material, so even if we tried to boycott or do something about it, we wouldn't make much of a difference. I could see something like this working with American content.


And the sexism thing in shounen and shoujo manga: I've always noticed that shounen stuff is always more visually sexist, the girls are there for their bodies. The bodies are of impossible proportions. Their bodies are always mentioned, commented on, etc. This makes sense because how often in the real world do we see women's bodies being exploited? ALL THE TIME. Men are more visually excited so visual sexism happens more often in shounen content.

In shoujo manga it is more role-based sexism and stereotypes. It's situational sexism where the girl is put into a situation that is sexist, and the outcome is sexist, i.e. she's in some seemingly helpless situation because she's a girl, where she needs the guy to save her.

A perfect example this season is "Say I Love You", Yamato is the only medium between Mei and everyone else, as if he's her spokesperson. The girl just can't stand up for herself anymore. In fact she's gotten worse, the only time she did stand up for herself was in the first episode. I don't even know if this anime passes the Bechdel test. I had to drop it around episode 6 or 7.

In shounen and shoujo manga I think the sexism stems from the main character (In shounen it's always the spineless wimpy guy who ends up with the harem. Am I supposed to think that the spineless wimp is what the creators think of me?). On the other hand I think there are attempts at making more interesting protagonists. "My Little Monster" has a very interesting female lead. She has her priorities in check (and wouldn't ya know, some of those priorities don't involve getting married to a dream guy, you go girl!). She doesn't take shit from people, she tells you straight what's on her mind, and won't listen to anyone (including guys) if it conflicts with her priorities.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Skimpy stripper outfits... in Madoka?
Was this guy watching the wrong show? Did I miss an episode? Was there some hot-springs OVA I didn't watch?
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:39 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
Skimpy stripper outfits... in Madoka?
Was this guy watching the wrong show? Did I miss an episode? Was there some hot-springs OVA I didn't watch?


Their outfits are even more conservative than your average Pretty Cure (a show aimed at kids), which often show off midriff and a lot more skin. No idea what kinda standards you'd need to consider the Madoka girls as wearing "Stripper outfits".
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K.o.R



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 221
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:40 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
Skimpy stripper outfits... in Madoka?
Was this guy watching the wrong show? Did I miss an episode? Was there some hot-springs OVA I didn't watch?


That $75 for the special edition got you more than just a nice box and the soundtrack Laughing
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:44 pm Reply with quote
K.o.R wrote:
DmonHiro wrote:
Skimpy stripper outfits... in Madoka?
Was this guy watching the wrong show? Did I miss an episode? Was there some hot-springs OVA I didn't watch?


That $75 for the special edition got you more than just a nice box and the soundtrack Laughing


You LIE! I bought that.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5840
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:56 pm Reply with quote
kakitamike wrote:
While I didn't hate the show, I don't get why it was championed by so many people. It was a story that's been told before and felt phoned in starting with episode 10.

I like that he lumped it in with lost property, strike witches and bund. Not because I agree, but I figured it would make for good comment reading material.

Also, it's not exactly open minded to dump hate on this guy because he doesn't like a show you liked.


It is not that he didn't like the show, it was that he compared PMMM's girls to strippers and that if PMMM was a live action show it would be considered "child ..................".

So unless he is a Puritan from the 1600's, he has greatly exaggerated his reasons for disliking this show to the point of unbelievability. To me it sounds like he doesn't just dislike the show, but hates it.
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halochief_90



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 466
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:01 pm Reply with quote
swhitey wrote:
Quote:
Then we have series with characters who I believe show symptoms, with recent examples such as the casts of Haganai and Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun, Mei Tachibana of Suki-tte Ii na yo, and especially Mashiro Shiina from Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo...


I don't think I can quite understand how that even crossed their mind, especially Mei. While there are plenty of characters who act like morons or socially inept, I can't see how they show symptoms of Autism or other mental disorders. Shiina has had everything done for her and therefore knows how to do nothing and Mei has never had friends and therefore doesn't know how to make them or interact at all with people socially. I agree with their statement about a lack of focus on mental disorders in anime, but disagree with all their "examples" of these ideas.


Yeah, I was going to mention something like that before I saw your post. I especially don't see how someone could consider Mei's obvious social awkwardness to be autism. Best stay away from the dictionary definition when identifying autistic people.
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Kazemon15



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:23 pm Reply with quote
dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:
kakitamike wrote:
While I didn't hate the show, I don't get why it was championed by so many people. It was a story that's been told before and felt phoned in starting with episode 10.

I like that he lumped it in with lost property, strike witches and bund. Not because I agree, but I figured it would make for good comment reading material.

Also, it's not exactly open minded to dump hate on this guy because he doesn't like a show you liked.


Right, I'm not open minded and I dump hate because I have a response that is critical. And Madoka has so been done already. Next.


But it really has been done before. I do agree with the poster on Madoka, minus the stripper outfits though....I don't see how they can be considered stripper outfits or child abuse, since almost every Magical Girl series has its dose of nude transformation scenes.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:28 pm Reply with quote
The Madoka guy has to be a troll. No one could be so prudish as to find the outfits in the show to be "stripper" outfits.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:41 pm Reply with quote
dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:
I look at a show like Madoka Magica (which ANN was raving about) and see a viciously manipulative story where young girls run around in outfits that would make strippers blush, engage in pointless magic battles, and then are denied escape from the story even when they (SPOILERS REMOVED). And don't forget to have them run around naked some as well- fans love that. If this was a live action show with 14 year old-girls performing, it would probably be described as child abuse.

If you step away from the hate-o-rade for a minute, you might wonder why such a "vicious" thing was championed by ANN staff that have spoken out on numerous occasions against content that abhorrently exploits the fairer sex for entertainment.


What's more shocking is that specific copy pasta from @channel madoka threads was actually replied to in this weeks answer-man.

I really don't have a response for anything else in all honesty, I'll be off in my little corner now.
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stardf29



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:57 pm Reply with quote
You know, for what it's worth, I think that Mashiro Shiina of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou is actually one of the most accurate representations of an autistic person I have seen in anime. They don't outright say that she's autistic, but I've seen many people note that she does have a lot of the "textbook" symptoms, and Episode 10, in particular, does a good job of showing how, while Mashiro does have feelings of her own, she has a hard time understanding the thoughts and feelings of other people and entering into their worlds--one of the big signs of an autistic-spectrum disorder.

That said, her inability to dress herself and whatnot is completely separate. Razz
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Emma Iveli



Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 679
Location: Hobo with internet
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I look at a show like Madoka Magica (which ANN was raving about) and see a viciously manipulative story where young girls run around in outfits that would make strippers blush, engage in pointless magic battles, and then are denied escape from the story even when they (SPOILERS REMOVED). And don't forget to have them run around naked some as well- fans love that. If this was a live action show with 14 year old-girls performing, it would probably be described as child abuse.


And of course Homura has the most scandalous outfit yet! I mean look at all of the skin she shows, like her hands and her face! And even part of her neck! THE HORROR!
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chrisb
Subscriber



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 618
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:29 pm Reply with quote
I've always thought that some of the better anime to deal with mental disorders were the first two seasons of Digimon. I think the show explored childhood depression rather well without being too extreme.

Utena was another one. Everyone seemed to have either severe depression or had borderline personality disorder.

The manga series LIFE (which I LOVE) was way extreme in its themes, but it also dealt with Sadistic Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, and suicide (which was treated with a surprising amount of sincerity.)

I wish anime would explore these issues a bit more without it getting in the way of the overall story. We don't need any "tonight on a special episode of..." anime!
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