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Questions to ponder when watching Elfen Lied.


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poilk92



Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach California
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:

If "worse" is a term to be explicated by reference to your standards and attitudes, then there need not be any argument on the matter strictly speaking, provided all others are informed of your preferences. If you wish to imply something stronger than this, namely that the evaluative status of Elfen Lied is something objective and hence true independently of any person's attitudes of it, such that no doubt of such status can be reasonably held by those sufficiently informed, then I beg to differ. I must note, of course, that I personally hold Elfen Lied in very high regard.


if there is a more pretentious and convoluted paragraph ever written in the English language than this one I have yet to see it hahaha

just say "its an opinion dude!" gawd
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RHachicho



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 897
Location: Essex, UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Hehe that's Zin5ski's thing he I think he likes to use language that leaves no room for interpretation. Jus tolerate it or ignore it because I don't think it's gonna change Anime hyper.
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cashballer



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:58 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
One of the supidest shows to come out in the last decade and you make it seems as if there is some deep, philosophical questions to be asked after watching the show.

The main philosophical question (among many others) that I noticed was "what constitutes a human being?" That question was more obviously presented than almost any other philosophical question I've come across in an anime. If you couldn't even find that one, I'd like to know what show you were actually watching. As someone already stated, it was an incredibly simplistic presentation.

If, in addition to that, you dislike nudity and violence, I can imagine why you might find the show stupid.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:18 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
One of the supidest shows to come out in the last decade and you make it seems as if there is some deep, philosophical questions to be asked after watching the show.


There is a whole series of books -- whose exact title escapes me at the moment -- whose subtitle is: "You cannot know your own argument until you know your opponent's argument" (or words to that effect).

So you intensely dislike Elfen Lied; OK, I respect that, but what I was (and am!) trying to do is to get people to elucidate their reasons for feeling as they do about the series. To me, any opinion about Elfen Lied is justifiable so long as it's explained or detailed. To me, any refusal to explain the reasoning/gut feeling that one employs/has toward any work of fiction is simply and utterly inexplicable.

KanjiiZ wrote:
I enjoyed this show....when I first watched it. Literally two days later I was like "this show is terrible". I was just thirteen when I realized that.


Your parents let you watch that at age thirteen? Anime dazed Shocked
Wow.
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RHachicho



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 897
Location: Essex, UK
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:20 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Your parents let you watch that at age thirteen? Anime dazed Shocked
Wow.


Hell thats NOTHING my parents let me watch Urotsukidoji when i was about that age of course they didn't know anything about the Anime industry and thaught all cartoons where more or less innocent. And while I was expecting violence with a title like "legend of the overfiend" I was not expecting what was in store for me lol. Picture it me my sister and my best friend all sitting there watching it and then something got tentacle r*ped and we where like wtf!

I am just so glad we decided to watch it when my parent's werent in the house lol.
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Ggultra2764
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 3889
Location: New York state.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
One of the supidest shows to come out in the last decade and you make it seems as if there is some deep, philosophical questions to be asked after watching the show.

The nudity is unnecessary, the violence is retarded, and it forces you to feel bad. I enjoyed this show....when I first watched it. Literally two days later I was like "this show is terrible". I was just thirteen when I realized that.


It does have raise some awareness on psychological trauma (spoiler[Lucy's split personality and Kouta's repressed memories of the brutal murders of Kanae and his father]) and human morality (treatment of the diclonius) which it did have potential at expanding upon. Unfortunately, you can only cover so much with 13 episodes which combined with some blatant use of nudity and violence for either fan service or shock value and Kouta's home life slowly appearing to turn into an unwanted harem scenario (Nana and Yuka's appearance had relevance to their influence on characters and the themes the show tried to convey yet I felt Mayu was a waste of screen space as she has no connection to any of the issues faced by the other characters), did really hamper the series for me. Do I think of the series to be horrible as a result of these flaws? Not at all. But I don't consider it to be a masterpiece either which some within the show's fanbase tend to blow way out of proportion.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:54 am Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
I notice that several of the questions posed, most particularly 1), 5) and 6), demand normative answers of the respondent. That is to say, they are questions of a sort that are only typically addressed by the assertion, or at least the mere expression, of a norm. This being the case, one fathoms that addressing the numbered questions I list would require the respondent to express or imply what ought to be the case regarding nudity, entitlements and moral responsibility receptively. (Many respondents on this thread have already done the latter.) A formal explication of any such address would thus require them to state and critically support their beliefs on the what "ought statements" and their associated norms actually are.

The point I wish to draw from this is as follows: for me to answer the question of whether or not I consider the Diclonii to bear an entitlement to certain rights, even if I ignore for convenience the fact they are fictional, would require me to discuss matters pertaining to subjects far broader than the content of Elfen Lied alone. The same applies to the other two questions.

The questions pertaining to the being of a Diclonius, or the nature of one, as vague and trite as such a term is, pose similar requirements of the respondent. Answers to 2), 3) or 4) will be somewhat enthymematic, insofar as they will typically suppress the respondent's beliefs about dispositions, causes and the sufficient conditions for humanity respectively — beliefs their answers assume to be true. My claim that Diclonii are not naturally psychopathic must rest upon my primitive understanding of the sufficient conditions for Dicloniushood, to coin a term. Again, I fathom that these three questions are "loaded" to the extent that an adequete discussion of them would cover topics larger in scope than a single anime.
One of my original reasons for launching this thread in the first place was that I wanted to create a framework/scope that was flexible enough to be as wide-ranging -- or as narrow -- as necessary for a respondent's answer. The original thread that had RHachicho's line that I was originally responding to was simply too narrow for my purposes. I really did want a free-wheeling discussion.
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mrsentimental2



Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:23 am Reply with quote
Man O' Man! I'm liking any Elfen Lied talk! It's been years, and still one of the best ever! Definitely a "love it or hate it" series.

I'm not sure about any social values stuff, but the Diclonious insticts to kill and the effects of Lucy's brutal upbringing are interesting enough points of discussion.

Any signs of a second season?
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