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REVIEW: Love, Chunibyo, & Other Delusions eps 7-12


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Oroboro



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:09 pm Reply with quote
I think the important part was just that she came to terms with her fathers death.

After all, there's nothing inherently wrong with being a Chunibyo if you're just having fun with your friends. It's using it to escape reality or to shut yourself away from other people that's a problem.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:51 pm Reply with quote
I agree with Ryu Shoji; the emotional and thematic conclusion (reality vs delusional insanity) was far too black-and-white, Yuuta's presumptuousness was kinda glossed over and the developments with Rikka suddenly moving away and then ending in a police chase I found cringeworthy.
Plus Dekomori was far superior as a straight-haired, properly-speaking, refined young woman.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:00 pm Reply with quote
EmperorBrandon wrote:
Key wrote:
I will be very surprised if Sentai doesn't give this one both a dub and a Blu-Ray, as this is much less of a niche title than a lot of the stuff they pick up.

A rep of Madman (the Australian licensor) seems to be under the assumption that it will be dubbed, at least.


I'd say this title stands an almost certain chance of getting dubbed. However, don't forget that foreign licensors have been wrong about Sentai dubbing titles in the past, like Mayo Chiki.
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ShinnFlowen



Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Blood- wrote:
Spleen wrote:
But as soon as it decided to turn to drama, what you had was a show desperately trying to tell us that this wasn't about a boy seducing a mentally ill girl. There was no need to get serious and make us stop suspending our disbelief.


I disagree. As much as I loved the comedy aspects, they were already beginning to pall by the time the series inevitably started exploring why Riika was the way she was. Maybe you could have gone on indefinitely enjoying variations on the same idea over and over again, but not me. I'm glad the show was smarter than that. And your characterization that the show was "desperately" trying to tell us this wasn't about a boy seducing a mentally ill girl is incredibly uncharitable. Their affection was clearly mutual and I never got the the sense she was mentally ill - merely unwilling to face a certain painful part of her reality.


I find it hard to believe that you thought Rikka was mentally ill. It was either a tool to escape from reality or just one of the enjoyable ways a person spends his or her's spare time. When a person play's a an MMO and decides to be a badass looking giant or sexy cat girl does that make them mentally unstable? I took from this show that she was having fun and was quite courageous to be able to incorporate her fantasies in the public. The only problem with her actions was she also was using it as a way to avoid some of her family issues.

It is strange how there is a disagreement on whether the first half or second half is better because I thought the drama was more entertaining than the comedy portion, but at least everyone who finished it got something they enjoyed.
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Ryu Shoji



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 671
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:19 pm Reply with quote
ShinnFlowen wrote:
Quote:
Blood- wrote:
Spleen wrote:
But as soon as it decided to turn to drama, what you had was a show desperately trying to tell us that this wasn't about a boy seducing a mentally ill girl. There was no need to get serious and make us stop suspending our disbelief.


I disagree. As much as I loved the comedy aspects, they were already beginning to pall by the time the series inevitably started exploring why Riika was the way she was. Maybe you could have gone on indefinitely enjoying variations on the same idea over and over again, but not me. I'm glad the show was smarter than that. And your characterization that the show was "desperately" trying to tell us this wasn't about a boy seducing a mentally ill girl is incredibly uncharitable. Their affection was clearly mutual and I never got the the sense she was mentally ill - merely unwilling to face a certain painful part of her reality.


I find it hard to believe that you thought Rikka was mentally ill. It was either a tool to escape from reality or just one of the enjoyable ways a person spends his or her's spare time. When a person play's a an MMO and decides to be a badass looking giant or sexy cat girl does that make them mentally unstable? I took from this show that she was having fun and was quite courageous to be able to incorporate her fantasies in the public. The only problem with her actions was she also was using it as a way to avoid some of her family issues.

It is strange how there is a disagreement on whether the first half or second half is better because I thought the drama was more entertaining than the comedy portion, but at least everyone who finished it got something they enjoyed.

The series kind of glossed over the fact, but being a chunibyo was pretty much stated to be a an obsessive mental illness (according to Wikipedia, "chunibyo" even translates as "junior high school second grade illness)". I wish we had learned how other characters such as Nibutani and Dekomori had become chunibyo, but if we look at Yuta and Rikka, one of the triggers is obviously a thought spiral coming from a need to find mental escape or solace. With Yuta, it was the feeling of being socially excluded and with Rikka, it was initially thought it was the shock of her father's death, but spoiler[was revealed to be her seeing the chunibyo Yuta and realising that to act like that would be a better way than just bottling up her feelings and doing what she was told, being inspired by the strength Yuta had in the belief of his chunibyo]. So you could say that it was a conscious decision at first, but that quickly became an obsessive behaviour (perhaps even an addiction), to the point where her being denied it caused her to become incredibly withdrawn and frankly, broken.

Remember, clinically, things like depression and social anxiety fall under mental illness. I should know, I recently received counselling for my social anxiety (which not many people would consider a big issue at all). I was treated using Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which focused on curing my anxiety by tackling the negative thoughts that would occur and start a chain reaction. Being a chunibyo clearly has a similar thought process to someone developing social anxiety - just like how I could have controlled my initial negative thoughts that grew into my anxiety, Rikka let herself become a chunibyo instead of tackling her issues, thus escalating the severity of both the underlying issues and the strength of her initially self-induced delusions.

So although it isn't on the level of bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, being a Chunibyo is a mental illness.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23822
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:49 pm Reply with quote
@ Ryu Shoji - you have to set aside the reality of whatever chunibyo is in real life as distinct from what chunibyo is represented as in the show and how Rikka is intended to be perceived. As represented by the show, chunibyo is made to seem like a phase that some young people (8th graders, specifically) go through where they service their internal fantasy worlds to a mortifying degree. To a degree where outsiders cannot help but notice what they are doing. The show itself does not treat its version of chunibyo like a mental illness or a personality disorder. It's presented as an embarrassing phase that certain intelligent, imaginative, but somewhat emotionally immature children go through and grow out of.

I don't believe the show is trying to tell us that Riika is actually having psychotic breaks from reality. I.e. I don't believe the show expects us to believe that Riika is so immersed in fantasy that she literally cannot distinguish her imagination from reality. My interpretation was that she was using her imagination to keep pain at bay and was stubbornly sticking to that defensive strategy.

Now, there were real problems associated with this mindset. Her version of chunibyo was keeping her isolated from her family and a good chunk of her peers. But again, this was presented as more of an attitude problem as opposed to mental illness/personality disorder issue.
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kanechin



Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 447
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:43 pm Reply with quote
if they didn't have that predictable romance bs I could have watched this. what's wrong with the main teen boy and girl interacting without the need to eff each other?
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Oroboro



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:45 pm Reply with quote
kanechin wrote:
if they didn't have that predictable romance bs I could have watched this. what's wrong with the main teen boy and girl interacting without the need to eff each other?

Have you ever met any teenagers? Laughing

I rather liked that they completely avoided the usual harem schtick.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2346
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:16 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
I will be very surprised if Sentai doesn't give this one both a dub and a Blu-Ray, as this is much less of a niche title than a lot of the stuff they pick up.

it's kyon ani they probably wanted an arm and a leg for the bluray rights.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:07 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
MaxSouth wrote:
Theron, you are the kindest soul here, as always. I would be merciless, cracking reasons why the audience had this anime rated two levels lower than they could. But then many people would miss those good qualities this show has, even if I would list it. Once you see, get exposed to lacks of something, you can not "unsee". With more positive review the show has more chances.


Damn decent of you to nobly with-hold your doubtlessly influential opinions so that others will give the show a chance. Laughing


Damn indecent of you to ignobly missing the fact that I was talking about of situation if the guy like myself was *reviewer*. This has nothing to do with expressing my opinions just as commentator. Self-exposing misplaced LOLs are always best LOLs, thanks. Laughing

Joking aside, I indeed tend to have little-to-no tolerance towards issues within any media, I am quite ruthless. Sometimes I am even worse than Carlo, Carl, and Zac in their worst moods, combined. I can only count few titles where I did not really face script/concept consistency problems or other issues -- among more than four hundred I have watched. So I am glad that not everyone among reviewers is like those I listed -- with lots of "zilch" or "1" or "D" ratings for the shows, even though those are much closer to how I see projects myself.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23822
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:33 am Reply with quote
No, I knew what you were getting at. The LOL was not a self-LOL, it was directed at you. Even assuming you could find an outlet dumb enough to actually pay you for your views, I have no idea why you think your drivel would influence anyone. Laughing <- laughing at you, not with myself.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:34 am Reply with quote
Ryu Shoji wrote:

The series kind of glossed over the fact, but being a chunibyo was pretty much stated to be a an obsessive mental illness (according to Wikipedia, "chunibyo" even translates as "junior high school second grade illness)".


There are not enough facepalms in the universe.
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ultimatemegax



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:01 am Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
it's kyon ani they probably wanted an arm and a leg for the bluray rights.
Nearly every series/movie/OVA today is made by a group of companies called a "production committee" of which the animation studio may or may not be a part of. For this show, Kyoto Animation is the animation production studio and original creator. TBS is the company which held the international rights to the show and would be the one allowing any possible release on blu-ray, not the animation studio.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:50 pm Reply with quote
That doesn't change that being a KyoAni work instantly ups the price.
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Ryu Shoji



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 671
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:53 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
@ Ryu Shoji - you have to set aside the reality of whatever chunibyo is in real life as distinct from what chunibyo is represented as in the show and how Rikka is intended to be perceived. As represented by the show, chunibyo is made to seem like a phase that some young people (8th graders, specifically) go through where they service their internal fantasy worlds to a mortifying degree. To a degree where outsiders cannot help but notice what they are doing. The show itself does not treat its version of chunibyo like a mental illness or a personality disorder. It's presented as an embarrassing phase that certain intelligent, imaginative, but somewhat emotionally immature children go through and grow out of.

I don't believe the show is trying to tell us that Riika is actually having psychotic breaks from reality. I.e. I don't believe the show expects us to believe that Riika is so immersed in fantasy that she literally cannot distinguish her imagination from reality. My interpretation was that she was using her imagination to keep pain at bay and was stubbornly sticking to that defensive strategy.

Now, there were real problems associated with this mindset. Her version of chunibyo was keeping her isolated from her family and a good chunk of her peers. But again, this was presented as more of an attitude problem as opposed to mental illness/personality disorder issue.

I wouldn't say it was an "attitude problem" at all. I also never said that her delusions were psychotic episodes.
Rikka was obviously inspired by seeing Yuta in his "chunibyo state" because he was confident in his own beliefs, which Rikka wasn't because she had the sudden death of her father thrown in her face and the knowledge that his illness was kept from her for a long time, which obviously would have been very unsettling for such a young person. Also, if it was just an "attitude problem", why would Dekomori have been reduced to tears when confronted by Yuta about it?

The way the series treated Rikka's was like it was a psychological illness or disorder. Did her sister hit her and yell at her to snap out it and behave? No. She tried to persuade Rikka to visit their family grave so that she could finally come to terms with her father's death, because she knew that that was what the cause was and that was hopefully how to make Rikka have to face reality.

As for how the show handled it...frankly, psychological conditions can't be put under one blanket banner. Sure Yuta and particularly Nibutani saw it as an embarrassing phase, but for Rikka it had obviously become a lot more serious than that. As you said, it started to get in the way of her relationships (both friends and family) and her day to day life. It was from that point where it became a psychological concern, as she was using it as a shield to protect herself from having to confront something which she didn't want to - her father's death. I wouldn't call that an attitude problem at all.

In regards to Rikka and her chunibyo, the only way I can describe it is like alcohol. You could compare Yuta and Nibutani's time as a chunibyo as someone going out one night and getting absolutely drunk, then remembering what embarrassing things they did the next day. However with Rikka, keeping with the analogy, she started to "drown her sorrows" with alcohol and started to see it as a form of escape, which eventually escalated into alcoholism. So something as normal as having a drink became a serious problem. The way you treat an alcoholic isn't through making them go cold turkey at the drop of a hat and to do so is actually very dangerous - a similar effect occurred when Yuta told Rikka to take off her eyepatch and it was as if her entire personally had been overwritten by a timid, frail young girl's - it was a complete shock to her system.

Adopting chunibyo-like behaviours may be a conscious decision, but depending on the environmental triggers surrounding said person, it can quickly become an obsessive behaviour and eventually, a psychological problem. Remember, in the field of psychology there are not just "nature" factors like conditions a person is born with or are created through chemical imbalances in their body etc, there are also "nurture" factors which are picked up through the world around them and their interactions with it. In the case of chunibyo, it would fall under the second one. It's actually the lack of most people being able to make that distinction which has been a problem for the field of psychology for quite some time.

So, if you take away the misconception that you assumed that I was talking about Rikka having psychotic episodes and whatnot, we're actually on the same page - the only difference is, I know that what I'm describing would also be attributed to a psychological illness or disorder (which as I said in my previous post, depression and social anxiety fall under), albeit a mild one in comparison to the broad spectrum that there is.
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