Forum - View topicREVIEW: Gunslinger Girl DVD 1
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angel_lover
 Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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It seems to me as though Key is making a basic error of indirection. The whole point of it is that some of the characters treat the terrible things that have been perpetrated on the girls as being matter-of-fact, but just because a fictional character acts in a particular way it doesn't mean the work itself is promoting the same point of view. Henrietta appeared to have suffered a similar fate to Lavinia in Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus (especially if you take into account the even more disturbing kowasareta ningyo image in the GSG manga), but that doesn't mean Shakespeare condoned or was exploiting rape and mutilation. |
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AuraShadow
 Posts: 242 Location: Texas |
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Yeah it's to inform the audience that these could happen (And as someone said it happens in Africa) not nessisarly that they support that way of thinking. This is the same type of realsim you would get from the news. Being informed about everything is better than getting the readers digest version. Especaily about a subject so serious, toneing it down and making it into a typical "cutsie" anime would be a disgrace to the subject. I would rather have a real version of this subject than one that is made out to be nothing more than what was said earlier, a "gimmick". |
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RainOfSteel
 Posts: 30 |
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The explanation presented by the anime is that process works better on female children than it does anyone else, although it seemed clear to me that they had tried it on others. |
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RainOfSteel
Posts: 30 |
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First, I would like to post a reference to my existing micro-review of Gunslinger Girl for the 10 Fave/5 Worst Anime topic.
See: My Top 10. Gunslinger Girl makes #4 on my list. I think that it is important to note that the whole anime is a cautionary tale about inhumanity and the abuse of power in the same way that Nausicaa was a cautionary tale about greed, lust for power, the arms races toward every more powerful weapons, and pollution and ignoring the effect mankind's activities have on the global environment. Yes, I have no trouble mentioning GSG and Nausicaa in the same breath. |
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Sydney2K
Posts: 219 Location: Australia |
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Actually, I agree with Key, the reviewer, in terms of the concept. When I watched the first fansub, the word I used for it was pornographic. Not in the sense that there were sexual acts going on in the show (there wasn't), but that the idea, of little girls going around with guns and killing, extremely exploitative.
Here's my thinking about this. There are videos that show bikini clad girls firing all sorts of guns. What's the go with that? That girls with guns can be tittlating to some members of the community. It's not against the law, but it certainly is out of the ordinary. Now, people know that in Japan anime and manga depicting pre-pubescent children in all sorts of acts are readily available. Most of them are sexually tittlating, but certainly they would be frowned upon in most Western societies. Now IMHO, the concept the combination of girls and guns and the lolita complex suggests to me something at the extreme edge of exploitation, that the creators thought they might fill a niche market by combining these two ideas. (This is remembering that Gunslinger Girls was not created for a Western market.) Now, this is not to say that the anime itself isn't good. It may well be. Indeed, several posters have remarked that there is a depth to the characters and that the actual story does come out against the exploitation of the the girls in the story as inhumane. But I would guess that many uninformed people, who may not know anything about anime nor manga, would worry seriously about a title which is described to them as "little girls who are assassins." Just on a word about the review and the reviewer, I know nothing about Key, I usually don't read the review section of ANN. I figure though that ANN trusts him/her as a reviewer, and that when he/she gives his/her word or opinion on an anime or manga he/she will be fairminded and even. Of course people are perfectly able to agree or disagree with his/her comments (which is why this forum is here.) But ultimately the review will recommend whether a particular show or book is worth spending your money or time on, which gives the reviewer an authority that the forum doesn't completely have. Which gets down to the crux of the question- should you buy Gunslinger Girls? Key doesn't think it's a good idea, neither do I. But he/she has given enough information for someone to ultimately make their mind about it- which is better than a one line "it's great/it's crap". Widya Santoso |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18210 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Just to save Sydney2K (and maybe others) some confusion in the future, I'm a "he" despite my choice of avatar.
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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I definitley agree with Sydney's comment. If you don't agree with the content of a review, then you can use the forums to start a discussion. But just because you don't agree doesn't mean that you should question the reviewer's credentials. The review is well written and has a logical thought process, so there's really no reason to complain. Besides, controversy is fun
Gunslinger Girl seems about as deep as Gundam is anti-war. Both series cater to rediculous fantasies of people who are titilated by young girls with guns or people who enjoy giant robot destruction. They hide behind their "deep" characterizations and plot lines. In each Gundam series, the carnage is tempered by frequent anti war sentiments and depictions of the horrible destruction of war. And yet there is a central hypocrisy to this message: if the show's main "deep" message is anti war, why is the central catch of the show the graphic battles if not to service the depravity of the continued production and consumption of violent media. Like Gundam, Gunslinger Girl is "pornographic" violence with a lolita twist. Like some people have pointed out, the show lacks fanservice that often accompanies this type of series but its very nature shows its true intentions. Like its other ilk, this series gives wide eyed young beauties weapons and forces them in horrible situations. The girls are given tragic background stories that are slowly revealed as the series progresses. In this case, the horridness of the situation is made more mild by the fact that the girls are robots but the central point still remains: young girls with guns in violent situations are exploited for the titillation of the viewer. Behind each "deep" plot line is the animator's pedophilic fantasy, most likely repeated so many times it is cliche in other pornography but censored for the widespread consumer. This kind of anime is exploitive and sickening but what really perplexes me are the people who defend it. |
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AuraShadow
Posts: 242 Location: Texas |
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First off, I don't think anyone so far has flat out said that "Key"'s review was stupid or anything like that without even backing up thier responce. Second, I actually enjoy Gundam alot. (Well, Wing, SEED Destiny, and some of G Gundam) I think the reason is that I'm 16 and I have yet to really grasp the real world and everything that makes it complex (and annoying) I think that's the reason I enjoy such animes as Gunslinger Girl is because it displaies stuff I would never want to do. Except the fact that I do want to learn how to use a gun and archery before 30, but that's another story. I'm a good girl type otaku. The chances of me doing anything worse than lying to my parents is slim to none, yet I enjoy such animes as Gunslinger girl. Must every anime be catered to the "Kyo(Fruit's Basket)-hat wearing fangirls." out there? Ok, 10 yr olds with guns, to me that's no big deal because I know in this anime (not saying it doesn't happen) is not real. I think calling the creater a pedophile is very insulting. Insulting people like that that you don't even know is rude, so please refrain from personaly attacking someone like that, unless there is evidence that supports your claim, or else it's fruitless spam. Anway, I've never understood the big deal honestly. I'm not a bad kid (honestly I used to cry when I got detention) and even I can handle something like this. These things need to be displayed somehow. They can't be hidden in the dark and ignored. If you would rather not have these type of issues recognized by the general public, then you wish us to be in ignorance. These types of things have to be presented in one way or another. The creater desided to put his into anime, that is his right. This isn't for the younger audience that is definate and has been established, but for people who can, we have the right to know that these things do happen and exist. Animes like this help break the sterotypes that Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh have made about what anime "is" in America and bring it into the light of an artform that should be taken seriously. Would you rather all animes be devoided of anything serious like this and remained the but of kid jokes forever? I say progress is better than none. |
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angel_lover
Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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Erm, isn't that what we're doing here?
I'm not saying it's the case here, but just because someone is an Official Reviewer Person, that doesn't make them beyond reproach.
There's a huge difference between 'caters to' and 'appeals to'. Undeniably, GSG will appeal to such people, the question is was that its main purpose? For example, I'm sure there are pedophiles who head to the beach each summer to see kids getting undressed and running around, but that's not the purpose of beach holidays, it's an unavoidable side-effect.
Just because something has young female protagonists doesn't mean that it necessarily has a 'lolita twist'. That's as illogical as saying Little House on the Prairie is a story about homesteaders with a lolita twist.
That does rather smack of "don't confuse me with facts, I've already made up my mind".
I didn't find the girls either particularly wide-eyed or beautiful, which makes me wonder why you should describe them as such...
Shouldn't that be inside a spoiler tag? spoiler[They aren't robots, they are cyborgs. Much of their bodies have been replaced, but they still have human brains and minds and, within the limitations of their conditioning, they also have emotions].
Again, just because some viewers may be titillated by it doesn't make the work itself exploitative.
Contrary to popular opinion, there are not pedophiles everywhere, no more than there were witches everywhere in the 16th and 17th centuries.
In that case, to paraphrase the famous tagline of The Fly, be perplexed, be very perplexed. |
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SnowfairyX
 Posts: 438 |
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I think the first word that came to my mind when I first heard about Gunslinger Girl was "lolicon." The series didn't interest me at first because I thought it would be boring and just rely on the "gimmick" of having little girls as assassins. After reading some reviews of the entire series from some very tough anime critics, I became more interested. The series is supposed to be a very character-driven and slice-of-life anime, which I enjoy.
There were some reviewers who also had the same negative thoughts as Key at first, but ultimately enjoyed the series overall. I picked up the first volume of Gunslinger Girl with the artbox recently because of the artbox itself, Madhouse Studios, and the positive reviews. |
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Nani?
 Posts: 632 |
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Have any of you noticed that Gunslinger Girls merely does something that is done in a lot of Anime and the consequences are not dwelled upon, because the consequences are of not doing this or people who do it are not nice people. Some examples that come to mind are Ruri (Nadesico) Yushiro Gowa (Gasaraki) Several of the Dragons in X, Arashi and Sorata in particular, the Yumurra Kirika from Noir, Rei Ayanami in particularin Eva.
Gunslinger Girl is simply putting this in our face, because, ultimately, it's wrong (there are worse though). We should recoile. But that's what a lot of good Anime does. I think it's the strength of shows like Wolf's Rain, Saikano, Perfect Blue, Princess Mononoke, Scrapped Princess. On one hand their are shows I can't watch (Saikano, break out the anti-depressants) because it hits too close to home. However, I would also realise when my bias is a little too stong and step back (I hope) to review it fairly. I think Key did this to some degree. All the Best, Nani? |
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Whearn9999
Posts: 211 Location: Texas City TX |
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I totally agree. There is something very compelling about GSG. The interaction between Jose & Henrietta is one example. Rico's situation in general is another. Key's review is his opinion & I respect that. I am very glad to read that the majority of opinion in this forum is positive towards the show. I have seen Vol 1 three times already and I had to fight the urge to watch it again this weekend.(Mainly cause I had a big batch of new anime to watch) No other show has had that effect on me. My thanks to Cloe and all the others who like this show!! |
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xanbcoo
 Posts: 245 Location: Houston/Austin Tx |
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I liked what I saw of Gunslinger Girl. At first I did think it "exploitative", but when I actually watched it, I got less and less of a feeling that the girls were simply being used as "gimmicks".
Now Madlax, on the other hand, I can't understand its hype at all...But most Bee Train series make me drowsy anyway (I mean that literally, the stuff puts me to sleep). |
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AuraShadow
Posts: 242 Location: Texas |
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Madlax rocks! I like Beetrains animes. It's nice to see a slow paced, thought out anime once in a while. Like .hack (which includes all of the games, sign, and Liminalty) has SUCH a deep storlyine that not many people apprechiate it. It's for those who like to look at things slowly and from different angles. |
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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Just a little OT here, about Gundam. Firstly, it's easy to generalize, but actually, there are many Gundams out there, so when talking about "Gundam," it's important to specify which one one's talking about. Wing and Seed are, in my opinion, the most superficial Gundam series regarding message (sadly, they are the most popular), while 0080 and Z are some of the best animated war dramas ever created.
Secondly, I always perceived most UC Gundam series as not as much anti-war stories as rather war dramas (a genre that seems to have died out in anime as well as in cinema). They're about war and what it means for people and for countries. The message is not simply "war is bad" - the better Gundam series actually show the nature of war and the reasons it's bad (human lives toyed with and/or destroyed, abilities and positions abused, etc, and how, ultimately, war is meaningless because people will always be people and no war can change that). Yes, there are the mecha fights, and for a superficial viewer that might be what the anime is about. But I think it's pretty obvious that in the end it's about the people fighting in the mecha - why they are fighting and what they are fighting for. And as for the anti-war message... it really depends on the series. In some, like Wing, it's really just a superficial, demagogue thing. But in others, it's very strong and real - in fact, Gundam 0080 is one of the most profound anti-war anime I've ever seen. [/OT] |
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