Forum - View topicYour thoughts on "American" anime?
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Ghost10516
 Posts: 33 |
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Do NOT diss RoosterTeeth. :p |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6267 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Well what about co-production like The Animatrix, Halo Legends, Batman: Gotham Knight. Are they considered anime? The 2nd season of The Boondocks had animation from Madhouse, that's making people asking if this is anime or not. Also Do you know Little Nemo? A lot of people thought it didn't count as anime until more anime sites talk about Little Nemo and back up proving it's anime. Here's a cool fact: before TMS did the work, Studio Ghibli almost got involved in the production. Little Nemo is a co-production between USA and Japan and that movie came out in Japan first despite it catered for American audience. It didn't came out in USA until 2 years after Japan release. Also several American cartoon has now been under question if they're anime or not: Bionic Six: This cartoon or should I say anime has been under question from anime fans because Osamu Dezaki directed this show and the plotline in Bionic Six is similar Cyborg 009. So that's raising some eyebrow from anime fans if this is considered anime or not. Skysurfer Strike Force: Another cartoon now under question from anime fans because this is a co-production between Japan and US. So that's making anime fans question if this should be considered an anime or not. So there's your problem when it comes to "American anime". |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I'm saying this one last time and then I'm going to start removing posts:
We are NOT having a debate about what does and does not constitute "anime." Again, if you're not going to stick to the subject mentioned in the OP then don't post. |
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CosmicRage
Posts: 34 Location: SoDak |
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I didn't want to start anything with the "American" anime title. I was more curious if the anime aesthetic applied to a show written and produced in the states or even Europe for that matter, if you would hold it to a higher standard than you would anime produced in japan or if it didn't matter to you where it was created or what it was called. Or what your overall feelings by anime inspired projects are.
Clearly they are starting to get a little foothold in the state from some shows like Avatar, Korra, and even the ninja turtles. Not to start a "what is" debate but it is similar to the what is manga debate. If I were to start talking about OEL manga, would that give you a negative impression or do you not care who it is made by and more about the actual content? I only ask these questions because it seems as time goes on the more anime inspired projects we are going to see and I am curious if people will welcome some home-grown projects or how they would be received here. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Well whatever you want to call this, it's terribly voiced, kind of ugly, looks like an early PS2 cutscene, and is full of emo rock music.
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Snomaster1
 SubscriberPosts: 2810 |
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I don't have a problem with anime-style American animation. If they're going to imitate anime,I don't have a problem with it,as long as it's good. Stuff like "Avatar:The Last Airbender,""The Legend of Korra,"much of the early "Ben 10" shows,"Samurai Jack,"etc. I don't understand why there are those who are against American animators imitating anime.
I saw more than my fair share of collaborations between American and Japanese studios growing up and many of them were quite good. For those who say American animators shouldn't do any anime-style shows or movies,I think that's stupid. I don't have a problem with them and many of the ones I've seen are really good. I have no idea how the Japanese feel about Americans imitating their own style,and it's something that I'd love to know. All in all,a lot of anime-style shows can be good if you give them a chance. They're really a lot of fun to watch. I don't have a problem with them. I have no idea why anyone would object so strenuously to American animators imitating anime. I doubt you'd get this objection if American animators were imitating Brazilian or British or Russian animation. Why anime should be exempt from being imitated by American animators is something I'll never understand. |
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Arkov
 Posts: 120 |
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Anime, for me, has always just been another entertainment medium, in the same way that live action TV, video games, books and machinima are different mediums of entertainment. Yes, they are all visually distinct, yet they all share different genres and they all have their good shows and bad shows. In this sense, it is possible to group them all into one big entertainment lump. Does there really need to be a distinction between western animation and anime?
I'm looking forward to RWBY (though hopefully whoever is voicing the guy in the Black trailer tones it down a bit, he sounded like he was trying to be a bad ass to me). Even if I didn't know it was a Rooster Teeth production, even if I didn't know that it was a western production, I'd be looking forward to it. The art style is gorgeous, character design is great and the animation is fluid. None of the flaws in the trailers have been major turn offs for me. I understand why the distinction between anime and western animation exists; at this point in time, when the differences are stark, it helps us decide whether or not we want to watch it. (sorry, Key, it's kinda difficult not to talk about this in a thread about thoughts on western anime). What I don't understand is why some people so vehemently state that certain things are not anime, and seem offended when people think that they are. What happens when the bridge between western animation and anime becomes even closer? What happens when the distinctions are virtually non-existent? Will people still cry "no, it's not anime, it's not from Japan, lalalala!" I'm glad that western studios are being influenced more by anime. It simply means that there will be more variety in what western companies produce, with cultural references that I can actually understand. At this point, western animation is limited to children/young teen shows (not that I don't enjoy those from time to time) and comedy. There is nothing wrong with this field of genres widening; don't forget, anime has it's fill of children's shows and comedies as well. |
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Cam0
 Posts: 4888 |
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Party pooper 
Hmm for whatever reason that action packed trailer was boring. Just nothing about it really spiced up my interest. It just looks like the creators are just trying something out, messing around. |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Arkov, I feel the need to inform you that your attempt to paint those who disagree with your expanded definition as churlish came off as petulant.
Back on topic, I'll have to agree the voicework for the Black trailer wasn't the best, but the show's definitely got my attention. I'll have to check out a few episodes. |
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Arkov
Posts: 120 |
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Some people, who I've had personal experience with. Not all people, not you. Unless you say that anime is completely different to western animation based solely on the country of origin, then plug your ears and yell "lalalalala". Then it's directed at you. Yes, there are valid reasons for people to hold the distinction between the two. I may not agree with them, but I don't agree with a lot of things and it really isn't a big deal. I only get annoyed at those who are childish about it. If that makes me a child myself, well, I guess it is what it is. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15487 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I had no intention to look into this thread as I thought it would again be a futile effort in what is and isn't anime, and for somepoint that appears to be the case. But with the linking to RoosterTeeth's RWBY project, I am in for the discussion. I almost totally forgot about it when I came across the Red trailer, but I remember very much likeing the look of it, at the time I compared it to Black Rock Shooter in terms of CG animated fight. Yes the these trailers are rather unpolished in some graphical areas and perhaps in voice acting, but they are also trailers so as far as I can tell RoosterTeeth were looking for reactions. But I found the use of music and action to hit a spot that is entertained by genre inside of anime. And those character designs, a very pretty anime like look.
The Legend of Kora was another show that I rather enjoyed because it seems that something outside of Japan (America) has been able to emulate what makes anime rather popular. This is not some discussion about what anime is, but I think that America (hopefully other countries too) being able to do cartoons anime like is great to look into. Although in a way that could almost spell doom for ANN if anime only differed because of cultural jokes and initial language. |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
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If Japanese live-action cinema has been able to be distinct from "Western cinema" (which like anime and Western animation is a homogenic entity), despite being constantly influenced by it (and btw. Akira Kurosawa wasn't the first or only Japanese director influenced by western culture), I don't see why anime couldn't. And actually pre-Tezuka is much more directly American influenced than stuff that came after Tezuka. As to does American anime influenced animation interest, it really depends on the individual show. The trailers in the OP's really didn't make me excited, because cell shaded character animation wasn't that good looking. I liked Avatar: The Last Airbender just fine, although the first season suffered from too floaty animation in the action scenes. Either my eyes became adjusted to it or the animation quality improved as the series went on. |
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CosmicRage
Posts: 34 Location: SoDak |
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It's cool to hear what everyone things of the RoosterTeeth piece I posted up. I thought the VO was a little sketchy too, but I understand what they are trying to do and think I am going to have to keep an eye on that work of theirs. One thing I did find interesting was the things everyone pointed out.
It sounded like some people were going to check it out because of the artwork, or may not check it out because of the voice over and even a comment on the trailer perhaps not being as exciting as it could have been. I know that everyone looks at the complete artwork/trailer/music/voice over when watching a title, but I found it very interesting as to each person pointing out things that they liked or didn't like just from the trailer. |
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larinon
 Posts: 992 Location: Midland, TX |
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The voice-overs sounded like a temporary dubbing for those characters. I suspect that the guy was played by one of the Rooster Teeth staffers, it sounded like Chris Demarais actually.
Rooster Teeth has hired professional actors for characters in their flagship series, Red vs Blue, so I expect that when they get to the point where they're ready to seriously ramp up audio recording and production, professional actors will be ready to go. They are not just "a bunch of guys". Rooster Teeth is a full time production studio with a staff of 30-50 depending on what's being made at any given moment. They've featured the creator of RWBY, Monty Oum, on the Rooster Teeth podcast a couple of times in the past few months talking about RWBY and anime and other stuff, as well as co-writers Kerry Shawcross and Miles Luna. Some of you might recognize Monty from his own great work with Haloid and Dead Fantasy. His primary skill is turning his motion capture work into animation, not just for his own projects but Red vs Blue in recent years as well. That's how the character animations are being done in RWBY, too. The beginning of part 2 of the Rooster Teeth documentary done by Machinima.com features Monty and some of what he does. |
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CrisGer A.A.
 Posts: 170 Location: 世田谷区 Setagaya Ward |
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CGI is CGI. Not Aniime. Anime is a style based on historic Japanese art and design, though it uses the same style and technique developed both in Japan and the US to create animated moving images, the lines that define the drawing boundaries were originally designed to show the colourists where to put the colour and still serve for that as well as they define the overall style.
CGI is computerized tone based graphic art, and a different animal in both style and impact. It draws more on the learned graphic content of "photography'. Basically when we "learn" to "read" the content of imagery it is based on the "language" of the imaging system used, in our case, western people, we learn Photography early on and is our main form of visual communication that is not code based.. So we accept and understand a photographically rendered image as "fact' and can assimilate and process it much more readily than other forms. Even tho cartoon were another fairly common format for young people growing up the West, thru both newspaper comics and comic books, and then moving cartoons ala Disney at both the cinema and later on Television it still takes more processing and a more difficult suspension of belief on the part of a normal Western Viewer and thus is placed behind a barrier of acceptance that limits the audience both at the level of those who decide WHAT to broadcast on the popular channels ....ie the executive, and also on the part of the viewers. In Japan the visual style of anime is much more generic and natural, that style of art has been used in popular imaging in Japan for hundreds of years and the earliest anime imagery that was motion based and on film was actually created and shown in Japan in the early 1900s far before Disney. We however are quite culture zenophobic and few realize that anime has long and tradditonal roots in Japan and has much more impact, importance and meaning over there than it ever will here. I am glad some Americans may think of trying to make anime, it is certainly possible, there is no rule saying anime has to be created in Japan and anyone in the industry over there will say the same. But the skills to both design, write and then produce anime are very very complex and demanding and the patience and the commitment and the focus needed and the skilled and dependable people to make them are not easy to come by anywhere else. I have not seen any thing produced in the US or for that matter Korea or China or the Philippines which are the other places that anime style work is done, that equals what comes out of Tokyo. Just isnt happening. The examples quoted here are NOT anime, they are clever and charming CGI. Avatar the Last Airbender was open style, animated story telling, it was maybe 50 percent anime and the rest was a combination of various Eastern myths and legends combined with Steam Punk and overlaid with a decent enough romantic story line. It is in fact quite good, and has a lot of internal integrity. It never tries to do more than it can and be more than it is. The creators clearly had a good grasp of their intentions and they created a lasting classic. The sequel is a sad failure, as it is way too forced and artificially self concious and they blew many fine chances to tell us more of the story but i expected that as sadly there are rarely chances for the kind of work that the first season are and it was doubtful that their success would be understood or maintained. In the end, i am glad wherever good anime or anime like series can happen. I doubt that they will happen in the US largely in part because modern America has turned into a shallow and silly place culturally, and there is just about no understanding of the finer points of art, or artistry in just about any medium or genre or format. The works of Pixar and Disny and others here in the US are almost without any value whatsoever, and banal is a kind word for them, so i doubt that anime will happen here. If it does, i will be the first to cheer. Thank goodness we continue to have excellent anime coming out of Japan, and will for the foreseable future for they have the dedication and the vision to see the great good that can happen in fine anime. In closing, I apologize if my comments seem judgmental but this is my business, my profession is visual culture, i am a professional artist of over 45 years in one medium and have over the past ten years been studying anime and actually am working actively making anime myself now, as well as continuing to research it, i also work in Manga both in research and actively making it...both formats i am studying under Japanese masters of their fields, and hope to continue to study modern visual culture in many forms. It is an exciting time to be in the visual field and I am glad we have so much wonderful anime to enjoy and to look forward to. |
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