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roseversailles
 Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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I recant some of my statements about the "dubtitles," though I still wish Sentai had followed the Japanese language track a little more closely ("How overwhelming" comes to mind). The dub DOES improve as the series progresses, and the actors get more comfortable in their roles. I quite liked the VAs for Ringo, Masako, Yuri and Shouma, but never warmed to Monica Rial as Himari or the VAs for Kanba and Sanetoshi. I kept getting Akio dub-actor flashbacks when I heard him speak
 However, while it's not a sterling dub, it's nowhere near Utena's rough levels. However, I still HIGHLY recommend watching it in the sub, just to get the strongest acting and script the show has to offer.
As for themes, more than the idea of fate, I really believe the show is about family. From the Takakuras to the Natsumes, to spoiler[Yuri and Tabuki, and their desire for family, love, and the ultimate need to be needed], Ringo's struggle with "winning" her parents' love, all the major characters struggle to some degree with familial bonds, or the lack thereof. Consider the spoiler[Child Broiler, which is where unwanted children go, and how major it is that Himari is "chosen" by Shouma, and Shouma in turn by Kanba]. All these characters are motivated by the need to be loved, whether it is to save that love spoiler[Kanba, Masako, Yuri, Shouma], earn love spoiler[Himari, Ringo], or have revenge because they went without love spoiler[Tabuki, Sanetoshi]. If the show is read in this light, the ending and overall message is really one of hope, not nihilism or cynicism. It's a beautiful thing I think we've all felt at least once in our lives, and seeing it occur brought tears to my eyes 
I really can't state this well at the moment; I'll probably edit my post later. However, this is an artistic, brilliant anime, not without flaws, but hardly matched in its scope, ambition, and thematic success. Those final episodes sent chills down my spine. Ikuhara makes such rewarding, powerful anime, and I hope he never stops. While I agree with Zac, that it had one too many characters (only Mario seems useless to the plot), the majority of said characters were so likeable, that you couldn't help but root for them. I cared about Ringo and Himari, Shouma and Kanba, Yuri and Momoka and Tabuki, even Sanetoshi. The characters in Utena were concepts to me. The characters in Penguindrum were familiar friends. |
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roseversailles
Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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[quote="scarletbird"]
If I remember correctly, the true nature of the Penguindrum is revealed by spoiler[Momoka/Princess of the Crystal. In the final episode, it is revealed that the "fruit of fate" that Kanba shared with Shouma is THE Penguindrum. Kanba has half, Shouma has half. We see the Princess of the Crystal grasping this "fruit" in Kanba's chest multiple times throughout the series, primarily episode twelve. Shouma returns his half to Kanba, who then combines it with his own to give Himari. That apple of fate is what saves her, at least to my understanding. Shouma then takes on Ringo's fate from the spell, and there you have the ending and how the two boys "died" for the ones they loved)] It's really fascinating to see how many different interpretations you can get out of one symbol (an apple), by way of different mythos (the biblical symbolism, Night on the Galactic Railroad). Someone needs to write a dissertation on this series, stat! 
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shamisen the great
 Posts: 658 Location: Oregon, USA |
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I just finished Penguindrum a few minutes ago actually.I think I'm going to need some time to digest it fully.I wasn't able to completely grasp the meaning of Utena on its initial viewing either, but it still became one of my favorite anime of all time. I don't know if I will come to love and understand(as much as you can understand Ikuhara) Penguindrum as much as Utena, but I definitely think it is an important anime that should be seen. I look forward to hearing Zac and Bamboo's feelings on the show.
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Cheesecracker
 Posts: 240 |
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"Over-analysis: Taking the the fun out of things since the invention of bellybuttons"
I'm kidding. Brainfapping can be fun. Deeper or hidden meaning gets a bit "Where's Waldo" though. "Where is it? It's gotta be here somewhere." "Sometimes all you find is lint" I liked Penguin Drum and do think I need to watch it again, but can it be enjoyed without the presumption of depth? Is there any room to be lost in the story and still enjoy that? If I didn't enjoy being lost I'd never have any fun. I've always thought the fate vs destiny duality to be a bit stodgy. Life is not choice OR no choice, it's choice AND no choice. It's a chorus of freewill that you cannot control. Music is the sound of all the parts coming together NOW...not before, not after. Of course it's hard to hear with all the shouting. Well, at least that's what I thought until I learned "The Secret". |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I agree that it may be better to watch Penguindrum before Utena, as it's easier to relate to Penguindrum's characters while Utena's characters, apart from Utena and Miki, are unlikeable. |
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Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
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I dunno, that's debateable: if you enjoy really romanticized, twisted tragic characters then every character will have something to offer! I love Shiori and Saionji, myself! |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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I didn't mean that Utena's characters have nothing to offer. They are certainly interesting, but characters may be interesting and unlikeable at the same time. Besides, I like Shiori too, for being a fine example of a manipulative person. 
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scarletbird
 Posts: 8 |
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spoiler[Ah, yes, but what exactly is the "fruit of fate"? What are they giving to one another? When Kanba shares his half with Shoma when they're children, the apple has a heart carved inside it. Seems like a big clue to me... ] And of course my interpretation isn't necessarily the correct one. I just feel like it's the most elegant explanation, and segues in nicely with the themes of family and spoiler[self-sacrifice.] Plus I'm a huge romantic at heart...
Agreed! This show's been out for over a year now and there's still so much to discuss! |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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If you just sort of fundamentally don't enjoy or don't see any value in film analysis or in every discussion that's attempting to analyze something you have to be the guy who "jokingly" refers to it as overthinking things, and then wonders why people can't just enjoy things on the surface level, why do you even bother coming in to the discussion in the first place? "We're talking about dogs" "But did you ever think that maybe you should be talking about cats?? Or just not talking about dogs at all??" You're adding nothing of value. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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But you only noticed that there is always that guy that reacts to "overthinking things" ... because of your tendency to overthink things. I swear you oughter get a job where you have to read stuff that people write and then think about it and then tell them what you thought about it. That would be right up the alley of a things overthinkerer.
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varmintx
 Posts: 1202 Location: Covington, KY |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2948 Location: Email for assistance only |
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This is my interpretation of the child broiler that Bamboo brought up.
spoiler[Lost children, those abused by family members like Yuri or neglected like her fiancee, or out right abandoned like Himari end up in the "child broiler." It's the place where children "destined" by the circumstances go to have their identities destroyed. The children who slip through the cracks become ground up by the system. These children are ignored by society because they are already "broken." They are the misfits and the abused. These children, however, tie back into the theme of "family" and choosing your own family. Despite being abandoned by their "blood", Kanba, Yuri, Himari, and Shouma create their own family. It may be a family of misfits, but the love is genuine. Shoma believed that Himari could become something better than her circumstances or a child who disappears into the system. Kanba believed that Shoma was not destined to "starve" in the confining Kiba organization, and Momoka believed that Yuri was beautiful in her own, flawed image than what her father wanted to chisel her into; his idea of what she was meant to be. ] That ended up being much longer than I thought. Haha.[/spoiler] |
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Cheesecracker
Posts: 240 |
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Bamboo, herself, said there was a danger of over thinking it. If I suggested that you've missed my point or misinterpreted my intention, would you seriously consider it for even a second? It wasn't an indictment of analysis at all. Honestly, when I first watched it I wasn't aware that I needed to dig deeper and in some cases disregard the literal visuals for symbolism. I found Bamboo and your discussion interesting and enlightening. As someone who feels the need to revisit it with this new perspective can't I still validly ask when any creation is as layered as PDM is said to be 'how well does it stand minus any deeper inspection?' I'm not asking you to turn off your analysis but shift it. Is it even possible once depth is assigned? How would you have viewed this work if it had no pedigree. Would it be wacky, gonzo, incoherent? Does it only succeed with a disclaimer that you'll need a decoder ring? Was there ever a chance that you were going to watch it without your 'antennae' up? I think an important part of analysis is perspective. |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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Everybody told me to buy this anime, after this review, I'm probably not going to buy it now. Get to save my money for SAO instead.
I'm a software engineer, i use enough of my brain at work. I don't really want to use it for entertainment. Same reason why i don't watch oscar type movie. The movies that won best picture are normally bad movies for me to watch. Then again, some people make movie/anime for other reason, not all about money. They don't want to target the masses. Last edited by Spotlesseden on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cheesecracker
Posts: 240 |
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Since doubts were raised, I want to make clear that 'a cat is not a dog.' Likewise, a review is not it's subject. If possible find a way to sample it. I managed to like it despite my limited mental capacity. 
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