Forum - View topicHow much can sub vs. dub impact one's opinion of a show?
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Sohma_Curse
 Posts: 512 Location: New York |
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I'm someone who strictly watches dubs. The few attempts I've made at watching subs were a bit too tedious and awkward for me to enjoy, so I've never watched an entire series in its original element.
Now, I definitely enjoy dubs, don't get me wrong. Some of the voice-over actors have definitely become endearing to me and most of what I've watched has been synced up pretty well. However, I've brought up on numerous occasions that, in my short time watching anime, I've felt as if something was missing from some of the shows I've completed - whether it be plot holes that may or may not be explained deeper in the material the shows are adapted from, or just plain feeling unfulfilled. So to make my point, do you think there are (very) important elements that are lost in translation (or just left out entirely) in dubbed anime that could potentially impact how fulfilling, understandable, and/or enjoyable a show ends up being? |
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Divineking
 Posts: 1293 |
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I think that there can be but it ultimately depends on the kind of show it is. Some shows like Black Lagoon or Tiger and Bunny, work really well in english, and you can sometimes get more out of watching the english dub than the japanese version. On the other hand though there are shows like Gintama which could pretty much never work in english due to the large amount of japan specific puns and references, though that kind of show usually isn't dubbed very often. It is the kind where your likely to lose out of some of the experience listening to the dub track however.
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wcsinn
 Posts: 186 |
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I'm sure the dubs suck crowd will make their appearance and spout the usual dribble, but while I think most dubs are pretty good these days there are definitely some short comings. Dubs will frequently require more script changes than subs. Subs can concentrate solely on quality translations (sorry to say many do not) while dubs must take timing, making the translated dialogue fit the mouth movements and grammar and flow into consideration and it will often have a larger impact on dubs than corresponding subs.
Beyond that I think the whole "too Japanese" argument is often overstated, if you are mature enough and interested enough to look into and learn about the culture which spawned the original materials you'll usually be just fine. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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That's debatable. I found the Black Lagoon dub really hurt the series since it undermines Revy's American upbringing (removing her and other character's random English speaking scenes) and all the overdone swearing they added in everywhere to try to make it seem 'cool' or appeal to non anime fans or something. I suppose that's a huge thing. Anytime a character speaks English it'll be lost in the dub since it's already in English. Which can be important for characters who are American, or when they go to America or other English speaking countries as part of the plot. Ojamajo Doremi is a good example. Not sure how that'd work in the dub, especially when they go back to America later on as part of the story and get into all kinds of crazy American stereotype hijinks. Otherwise another big thing seems to be returning VAs. Japan has a much better track record of getting back old VAs for new seasons of old shows or a movie. Dubs seems to have licensing/contract problems, either they live too far away from the studio or they're Union/Non-Union problems. So if you're used to those dub voices and they suddenly switch in the new movie/series it can be jarring. Trigun Badland Rumble is a good example, where they replaced pretty much everyone besides Vash. And obviously if you're watching a TV dub like 4Kids or Saban then it'll be heavily censored and altered. |
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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I don't dribble on ALL dubs, but the one that I dribble on most often unfortunately turns out to be a textbook example of how bad dubs can turn off a first-time audience and do more long-term harm than good. Most folks these days don't, or can't, rent the dual-language disk, so most newbies will find a show from streaming, from Netflix (usually dub-only), or from Cartoon Network. They don't have the time to search out new undiscovered titles from Crunchyroll, and once burned by a bad first-episode dub, it's rare that you can ever drag them back, sit them down in front of a sub and say "No no no, the series isn't like that, you've the wrong idea!" and force them to watch the same episode again with subs. With most newbies and a dub episode, it's Now Or Never, and you can't blame them for thinking that if a dog quacks it must be a duck. Dubs become the ambassador for the show to win new converts, either to the show or to anime fandom, and have to conduct themselves professionally. I won't fault a show for "They don't sound like the characters", but if it warps, dismisses, or tries to otherwise sell the original show as something it's not, that's a dub that's longterm harm to the indutry. |
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Looneygamemaster
 Posts: 192 |
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Factoring in cast performances and translation, one should be able to judge each language track, whether Japanese or English, on an individual, case-by-case basis. If one track is better, you'll obviously get more out of watching the show with that track.
My personal ultimate case in favor of the Japanese track is The Vision of Escaflowne. That the English dub is dry and wooden would make it the weaker choice even if the Japanese cast was only average--that it's fantastic puts it even further above. Basically, Escaflowne is a really good show in English, and a near-masterpiece in Japanese. On the flip side, Romeo x Juliet has an average Japanese cast, but a fantastic English cast that has the advantage of a script filled with Shakespearian dialogue that (for the most part) really adds to the show. So Romeo x Juliet is a pretty decent show in Japanese, and a really good show in English. So yeah...it's individual and case-by-case. 
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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This is how I feel. It's why when I see people complain about the Cardfight!! Vanguard dub I groan, because even if the voices are "doesn't sound like the original characters that well..." category, it's a million times better than what Yu-Gi-Oh! got. It's uncut, it doesn't skip 50+ episodes, it doesn't change the entire premise of the show, it's not censored to heck and back and given cheesy dialog and the characters are now idiotic shells of their former selves... it's pretty much nothing like the original version and no doubt has ruined casual people's perception of the series because of the gag-dub 4Kids gave it. The fact a show like Cardfight!! Vanguard can get such a great dub that treats the franchise with respect is amazing and probably the only one of it's kind to ever happen in America. I don't watch dubs personally, but I do care about them because I know other people do and they can ruin people's perception of a series and the last thing we need is people thinking those kinds of dubs are representative of a series or the medium as a whole. |
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Svidrigailov
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I try to stick with subs just because I can't stand the result of most English voice actors mimicking Japanese inflections/mannerisms etc. (especially so with the females). Most of the time it feels cheap (to me) and I'll sometimes go as far as being embarrassed to watch, so I just avoid dubs as a general rule.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7987 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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As someone who watches both, no, you're usually not missing anything in terms of translating the dialog/story. The show is generally the same, although, sometimes there might be minor differences in how things are said and language or culture based jokes might be changed but we wouldn't get them anyway. Last edited by Kruszer on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I do not think that anything important is likely to be missing from the dub. Unless you are watching something that has been heavily edited for television, or a gag dub such as Ghost Stories, the plot, and theme of the story should remain intact. Things that are likely to be changed are puns and cultural references, but I cannot think of any cases where those types of changes are really important elements. I guess that it depends a lot on what you consider to be important.
If something does not work in English in a dub then it is not going to work in subtitles, which are also English. The difference, in my experience, is that dubs are more likely to change those things to something that does work in English even if the meaning is changed, while subtitles are more likely to do a literal translation even if it does not work in English. If we are lucky we get cultural translation notes that explain the meaning. That is why I have been very careful to not lose the cards that AnimEigo included with Urusei Yatsura, at least with the early volumes. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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I find it interesting that the ANN personal data base tool for rating an anime has the option "can't remember" as opposed to English-dubbed or English-subbed. I only noticed that recently.
Apparently I am not alone in that I can remember an anime -- even one I liked a lot -- without remembering what language I saw it in. What really counts is whether I enjoyed it enough to remember the story. Of course a bad dub can ruin and anime -- but sometimes the dubs are better than the original Japanese track. I think both these points support the idea that these dub vs. sub debates (and this is just the most recent of many) are pointless. |
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3909 |
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Generally, the only time I watch dubs is when an anime gets a US TV broadcast. There have been a few that I've only seen the dubbed version of, such as Bleach or YuGiOh. Generally, it doesn't impact my opinion of a show, even if it's a bad dub, as I'll just blame the quality of the dub.
I do find, however, that dubs sometimes can ruin a particular scene in a show. One that comes to mind is a scene in Strawberry Marshmallow, where one of the characters delivers a line in English. The humor of the scene is greatly diminished due to this. If I had been the director of the dub, I would have had the line delivered in a different language to maintain the original humor of the scene. |
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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For me, what it comes down to are 3 main things: a) the quality of the voice work; b) the quality of the translation; and c) miscellaneous pet peeves.
A) Quality of Voice Work There are some shows I like better dubbed, there are some I like better subbed. A lot of it comes down to the voices. Sometimes it's the tone of the voices. Sometimes it's how well the voices fit the characters. Sometimes it's how the show is directed. And it's not just dubs that have problems with "wooden" or "flat" quality work. I mean, I love Hoshi Souichiro, but stay away from anything he cries in. He just can't do it. B) Quality of Translation I'm personally against heavy localization, so a lot of my "quality" of translation, is how well things flow. Obviously, you have to work to match lip movements on dubs, but there's still a lot you can do with grammar to make sure you get the same idea across, even with re-wording. My default preference being subbed, and knowing a smattering of Japanese, the accuracy of the subtitles is big, too. I can actually forgive less-accurate dubs more than I can less-accurate subs, since it jars me out of "the zone" when I hear something I understand, and it doesn't match the subs. C) Miscellaneous Pet Peeves There's a number of these. Fifteening is all-but an automatic no-go for me (see below for definition), and is rare in official subs. For series that take place in Japan, with Japanese characters, dropping the honorifics is another that'll push me to subs over dubs, because you can tell a lot about a character and their relationships by what honorifics they use. Heavy localization (the changes to things that don't need them, i.e. onigiri to 'donuts', mainly) is also another problem. [For those who don't know, "Fifteening" is a mostly outdated practice of purposefully translating/adding in harsher language that is present/needed, to get a higher, "more edgy" rating (generally from a younger rating to a "15+", hence the name). Usually this is done with adding in profanity, but not always.] |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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As a general statement, I prefer dubbed. One of the main reasons I watch anime is for the art of animation, and I don't want to have to be looking at subtitles instead of the animation. That inherently detracts from the experience, even though I can read very fast and know enough japanese to not always have to pay 100% attention to the subs.
Another reason I prefer dubbed is that as far as things go, acting quality pretty low on my list of things I care about. That's not to say I don't care about it at all, but I'd be pretty OK with something having bad voice acting if everything else about it was good. If the animation is bad or has tons of shitty CG, or the translation/script sucks, then that's a much bigger put off to me. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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To me, it doesn't impact my view on anime. Beside watching anime in English dub, I've seen some of American stuff (video game, cartoon) dubbed in Japanese. I can tell you that beside anime that can have bad English dub, some of the Japanese dubbed on American stuff can range from good to bad (bad as in on the same level as badly dubbed English anime like for example the Japanese dub of Beast Wars was like on the same level as 4kids One Piece).
Last edited by mdo7 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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