Forum - View topicWhat male-oriented fanservice SHOULD learn from Free.
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
|
||
Yeah, no objectification here at all. This is all 'ironic' fanservice, not actual fanservice. No, Free! got a free pass because it's about guys instead of girls. You see the exact same kind of tropes in it that you see in other shows. Only it's about guys in their swimsuits doing sexy poses and doting around in aprons instead of girls in their swimsuits doing sexy poses and doting in aprons, so that makes it okay since double standards and all that. Sorry, it's all the same stuff you people constantly bash, and it's apparent just how hypocritical those people are when it comes to defend it and then bashing some other fanservice show in the same breath. Zac's views on these kinds of subjects make it fairly clear why he rated the show he did. Skimpy, buttcrack showing, pelvis bone exposing swimsuits with longing camera pans up their bodies and all the homosexual subtext would get torn to shreds so fast if this was female characters |
|||
|
|||
|
Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
|
||
Are you talking about Il Sole? There was absolutely nothing sexual in those scenes at all. Hell, there's basically no fanservice in the show at all since the characters aren't drawn to be sexually attractive; their body proportions are too far off from human beings for that. I don't know why some people always take stuff in a sexual way when it clearly wasn't supposed to be. It's the same as the people who say stuff like "Oh, this work has a rocket in it, and obviously it's symbolism that represents a penis." |
|||
|
|||
Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
|
||
Speak for yourself. Il Sole's designs are delicious as hell. |
|||
|
|||
|
Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
|
||
|
I don't see how this is any different than any other cheap fanservice show targeted at girls.
Most guys I know that have seen bits of this find the cheap homosexual innuendos in this show hilarious. It's no different than the girls I know that enjoy mocking the females in the stuff aimed at guys. There's no substance here, just cheap eye candy. There's nothing wrong with that either. It's not aimed at the usual male viewer. |
|||
|
|||
walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
|
||
|
I feel like it's a lot harder to sexualize men and get that perturbed feeling out of it, hence the double standard. Get a built dude in a tight little speedo and put the camera at all the same angles, and it'll still never be the equivalent as if it were a girl. Also, I guess it's a bit harder to get away with drawing in his cock and nuts bulge, not that KyoAni would do that anyway.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
||
As a major purveyor of fan service shows, I'd definitely agree with this. Maybe it's because I am a guy, but when cameras do the full body scan on sexy guys it feels more like admiring but when it's done on female characters it feels more like ogling. Concerning the whole "agency" business, while I don't think that descriptions of it are necessarily wrong, I do think that the term is being excessively applied. There is a definite difference between male-oriented fan service-heavy shows that are crass and exploitative of women and those that are done more tastefully, or at least in such a way that the female characters don't have to sacrifice every shred of empowerment or dignity; Qwaser of Stigmata is very strongly in the former category, while High School DxD edges towards but isn't completely in the latter category. (And the female characters being powerful doesn't necessarily shield the series from being in the former category, either, as the Heaven's Lost Property series repeatedly proves.) Spinning off that, I'm not entirely convinced that Free! is an ultimate example of using female-oriented fan service without disenfranchising its male characters, as while it is playful with its fan service approach I am absolutely convinced that a gender-swapped version wouldn't get off as easily. It does manage to use fan service without turning off the non-targeted gender, but that's at least partly because it's still rather mild fan service, and there are plenty of examples of this for series that have male-oriented fan service. One great example is the Crest/Banner of the Stars franchise, which does have some mild male-oriented fan service but still has a substantial female following. (Admittedly, though, it having numerous strongly-empowered female characters probably has a lot to do with that.) So no, I don't ultimately think we're going to see any titanic (or even significant) shift in the way fan service shows are done because of Free!. |
|||
|
|||
Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
|
||
Men just don't see it as a problem. Men get objectified plenty, but you don't hear any of them complaining about it. Well, I guess it's easy to not see it as a big deal when men didn't have to go through years of not being seen as people. Though with Free you do have a lot of men complaining about it. Not because of the treatment of the guys, mind you, but "OMG IT'S SO GAY!" |
|||
|
|||
|
Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
|
||
|
Men don't really get objectified like women do.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
|
||
|
Well, in the first place objectification isn't inherently a bad thing. It's what keeps our species reproducing. The problem is when there's only objectification. I don't see that happening in these shows because, even if archetypical, each girl is given a personality is treated as a character, as opposed to some sort of moving mannequin.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
|
||
|
What you're talking about isn't "objectification", it's "finding people sexy", which, no, is not bad.
Objectification is when you start thinking of people's worth solely by how sexy they are, as far as I understand it. |
|||
|
|||
Bango
 Posts: 1122 |
|
||
|
"This is the hottest god damn anime I've ever seen." -A female friend of mine when she watched Jojo.
As I said I haven't kept up with Free. But can we draw any similarities to the level of fanservice in another show for the male crowd? Would it go as far enough as Queen's Blade? Kanokon? I think it's level of... I'll say "depravity" (although that's FAR too harsh of a word for what I mean) is a big factor. IMO Free won't change jack squat unless it can compare evenly to some of the big dogs of the reverse target audience without alienating the male viewership. |
|||
|
|||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
|
||
Well, where people draw the line depends. I know some who'd say they're the same thing. Objectification is, as the word implies, treating a person as an object. In this case I think most people use it to mean treating a character as just some thing for the audience to drool over. But on some level people will always see other people as potential things to help them make babies. It's hardwired into our species. But like I said, it's a problem when it's just that. |
|||
|
|||
|
Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
|
||
|
By valuing someone on nothing but their outward appearance, by definition your objectifying them. It's become a nasty, politically incorrect word, but both men and women do it.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ignatz
|
|
||
|
I sometimes find female anime fans to be very annoying. For example, if there's a show that has violence against females, you get those that call the show misogynistic (eg Psycho-Pass). Makes me facepalm... In the case of Free!, I know plenty of female fans that defend the show by saying stuff like "Oh, it's not fanservice. It's all natural, since this show is about swimming." Really? Just from the camera shots you can clearly see the intention of this show. And let's not forget the reason why this show was made in the first place (do you really think that female fans loved this video because of swimming?).
Last edited by Ignatz on Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:12 pm; edited 4 times in total |
|||
Melanchthon
 Posts: 550 Location: Northwest from Here |
|
||
|
I don't what to put words into the mouth of anyone, so I'll just say what I think. Ehm.
There's fanservice, and then there is exploitative fanservice. Fanservice is a bonus, a 'service' given to the 'fans' to reward them for sticking around. Example. I'm watching Minami-ke, and the girls head to the pool and Kana is wearing a fine bikini (God, I love Kana so much). That's fanservice, unnecessary to the story but pleasing to the eyes. However, the reason people watch Minami-ke aren't because they get to see Kana in a bikini, but because there is a fun and amusing story to experience. Exploitative fanservice is different. In that form, the fanservice is central to the plot and story, and it the prime motivating factor for watching. Say, for example, the aforementioned Minami-ke episode centered on Kana losing her bikini top and needing to be rescued from this situation. That is exploitative. By that measure, Free is exploitative fanservice. But there is more than that. A significant portion of today's male orientated fanservice is centered around the idea of subjugation. There are obvious psychological reasons for this, the main reason being a lot of the core otaku audience of these shows are significantly conservative and misogynistic. Think about how many fanservice type shows feature guys falling down into compromising positions on top of girls, guys grabbing a girl's boobs by accident, girls being menaced by tentacles, girls' clothing being ripped, torn, or dissolved...I mean, the whole maid fetish is all about submission!... and think of all the fanservice shows that feature girls that cook for guys, girls that clean for guys, girls that act as some hybrid lover/mother for their loser love interest... This is the kind of thing I'm sick off. This is the unhealthy fanservice. And it wasn't always this way. Compare for example, Urusei Yatsura and it's badly disguised modern plagiarism, To-Love-Ru. Urusei is filled with fanservice, Lum runs around in a bikini and you'll see the bare breasts of almost female character at least once--but it's not submissive or subjugating. This is no bastion of feminism, but the female characters are all pretty 'kick-ass', strong physically and mentally and quite capable without their loser menfolk around. It would pass the Bechdel Test no problem. Could you say the same about To-Love-Ru? No. All the girls are dependent and besotted with the male lead (unlike UY, were everyone but Lum hates Ataru), the girls are weak and their designs database drive, and there are plenty of tentacles, clothes dissolving in slime, and pratfals into compromising positions, things that oddly enough, despite runing 195 episodes, don't feature AT ALL into UY. This is the problem people like me have with fanservice today. Not that it exists, but that it descends into this creeper territory that is unhealthly and should be shunned, not celebrated. Or in other words, I'd be perfectly fine with showing Urusei to a girlfriend. Some of these modern shows...not so much. And really should be the limitus test. |
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group