Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-07-28]
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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I shudder when I hear people say things like this. You cannot restrict free speech AT ALL and still have "free" speech. It's the same thinking that makes people say "You can't disagree with the president...we're at war!" and soon you're sliding down the slippery slope to totalitarianism. Freedom of speech is one of the single, most vital elements of a functional democracy, and to water it down at all is to shatter the spirit of this country. Just because you don't like to hear something doesn't mean that someone doesn't have the right to say it.
This is not true. Countless scientific studies have shown that it is puritanical societies that attempt to surpress sexual expression that have higher rates of sex crimes, whereas countries with greater availability of pornography have lower rates of sex crimes. It makes sense, really....if you have a person who has a certain intense, prurient sexual desire, they need a release for that. Pornography allows an outlet for the person. Without that outlet, the psychological need would build and build and the person would be that much more likely to lash out in the form of a sexual or violent crime. Don't believe me? Read this, an extensive study from the University of Hawaii-Manoa that directly correlates the increase in availability of pornography with a decrease in all sexual crimes, especially those committed against juveniles....
The reasoning that keeps getting thrown around here, which falls apart quite easily in this light, is that "Well, child molestors always have kiddie porn, so kiddie porn causes people to molest children." No, it doesn't. There is no causal relationship: the person has the pornography because they're a pedophile, but the pornography didn't cause the pedophilia. That's why I don't have a problem with the existence of lolicon, although I find the concept of it deeply disgusting and never have any intention of watching/reading the stuff myself. As I stated in an earlier post, it's estimated that a whopping TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT of adult men have at least some level of sexual attraction towards minors, which is just staggering. These people need an outlet for that, whether it's getting their girlfriend to dress up in a Catholic schoolgirl uniform or reading a lolicon manga. Lolicon allows this desire to be vented in the only victimless way it can be, by directing these urges at an artificial construct, a fantasy. No children are harmed in the making of it, and its existence can make sure that no children are ever harmed. |
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Kitsune_Cool
Posts: 27 Location: Washington |
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I like Zac's avatar. Not that that has anything to do with anything. I recently watched Howl's Moving Castle, and I absolutely fell in love with it.
As far as lolicon goes... *sigh* If I fantasize about being with monkeys, but I'm never actually with a monkey, does that make me fantasizing about monkeys okay? Isn't it still a little bit icky? Maybe it's a Picasso monkey, so it doesn't even look much like a monkey. It's just an image, painted on canvas, and hell, maybe most people think it's a dog. (What's up with my dog obsession today?) But in my mind, in my creepy little fantasies, it's a monkey. Now, I'd never sleep with a real monkey, because that would be dirty. I FANTASIZE about being with monkeys, but I don't act on it, so that makes me perfectly healthy, right? Right??? I have a daughter. I can't imagine trying to justify lolicon to her. "See honey, they're just cartoons, so it's okay if I fantasize about touching them! I'd never fantasize about a REAL girl..." Same old song and dance. Except for the monkeys. I haven't seen monkeys thrown into the equation today. Probably for good reason. (It's a really bad analogy.) (and for the record, I do not fantasize about monkeys.) |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Howl's is an amazing movie. I need to watch it again....
This post made me laugh really hard, especially considering I just read Guru Guru Pon-Chan for the first time today, which is surprisingly enjoyable for the weird bestiality overtones.... |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I would imagine this is how you treat all people that have done something wrong.
So if they feel they were wrong in commiting their acts, but their not going to get the chance to express themselves because you have branded them pedos 100 percent. And they are guilty and there is no "until proven innocent".
You've made a good example of yourself, believe me.
And no business on these here forums. Do you think I am honestly enjoying thinking about having sex with young kids right now. I look at someone young come around and when I look at them, I try very hard to not think about what I might do to them if there were nothing holding me back from it. I am lucky I have my sanity. I am really scared of myself in what I could do, and it is not fun to think of the consequences of what could happen. IT REALLY IS DRIVING ME CRAZY. |
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Yuukichan's Papa
Posts: 93 |
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I love when people say this but conveniently forget that none of our rights are absolute (nor should they be, but that's another can of worms). Freedom of speech is not absolute. Not being able to yell "fire" in a crowded theater is the classic example. If I remember correctly, neither is what could be construed as "fighting words". Threatening the president with death is a very bad move to make. Slander and libel are also punishable offenses. Maybe I'm taking your words slightly out of context, but the slippery slope argument is a little less cogent when the ground itself is *designed* to not be flat.
Maybe, but they can sure as hell make a birthday card funny. Once I make these points, I'm done with this drama fest. 1) I still find it strange that those who so readily dismiss a connection between violent media and violent behavior so quickly assume a connection between sexual media and corresponding sexual behavior. There is simply no evidence to support that one *necessarily* leads to another. It's foolish to think that there is no connection at all, but watching a gangster movie does not automatically doom somebody to a criminal life, and I see no difference between that and sexual content provided the viewer is capable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality. 2) I don't appreciate being considered a pedophile just for viewing loli content even though the thought of acting it out on a real child absolutely disgusts me, but the definition of the word is not reliant on the level of realism of its subject. It clearly states tendencies and state of mind, both of which are independent of the media which satisfies said tendencies and state of mind. 3) Most people still haven't addressed the issue of the damage that loli content could potentially do when somebody decides to whip those in power into a frenzy over it. Your and my opinions on it don't matter. It's Mister/Miss Congressperson's opinion that matters, no matter how ill or well-informed you feel he or she is on the subject. When the sh*t hits the fan, it won't be because of shows like Strawberry Marshmallow which despite their original intended audience are innocuous enough to be considered pure fluff. It'll be because of the one high profile sicko who hurts real children and who also has lots of loli stuff in his possession. How are we going to deal with that when it happens? Really, try to see past your emotions and gut reactions. |
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Mint Mania IIDX
Posts: 77 Location: Central |
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Do we seriously need to turn this into a moralistic battle of ethics? I am not defending child pornography. Everytime I see a CP flood on 4chan, I get sick to my stomach. Whenever I see a loli flood on 4chan, I'm like "Oh hey, a thread about the kind of hentai that I prefer!" Does that seriously make me a pedophile? |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You need to learn what words mean before you use them and you also need to stop trying to sound smarter than you really are. "Moralistic battle of ethics" is just... c'mon. You don't know that morals and ethics are not the same thing? I doubt you get "sick to your stomach" whenever there's a "child porn" thread on 4chan (that they have those there, apparently, is absolutely nauseating) considering if they post those exact same pictures again except THIS TIME it's a drawing instead of a photo, so you're A-OK with it! You are a pedophile. You are sexually attracted to children. Better start paying for the therapy or preparing for jail time. |
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Pleroma
Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Lol, its sad when people in /b/ are more reasonable than a well known columnist, guess thats why I spend more time there. Whatever, its pointless to argue when someone just shuts their ears and starts calling people criminals.
Anywho, lets just end this as its going in circles, ill just go molest some imaginary lolis and hang out with Superman. Life is so fun when you disregard reality! |
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Mint Mania IIDX
Posts: 77 Location: Central |
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It's late. I apologize for my really bad use of language. I was trying to convey that morals are not universal. Also, wow, you're a jerk. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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They're "more reasonable" because you agree with what they're saying.
Sorry I hurt your feelings or made you think twice before beating off to kiddie porn. |
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Kilgamayan
Posts: 275 Location: Location, Location. |
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Well, given the drawings are not real people, meaning that no real children were abused/taken advantage of/whathaveyou, I can certainly see why someone would have ethical qualms with one but not the other.
Since you provided zero factual evidence to back up this claim I'm just going to assume this to be an ad hominem attempt at garnering support and move on.
Whether he thinks he needs therapy or not is his decision, but unless he has actual child porn on his computer, he's not going to jail. |
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Mint Mania IIDX
Posts: 77 Location: Central |
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^__^ Silly Zac. You've done nothing of the sort, especially since lolicon isn't kiddie porn. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Right, because it's just drawings of children being raped and abused and tortured. You're totally in the clear, man. You're an upright citizen who goes to work, does a great job, gives a thumbs up to his boss on the way home, grabs a latte on his way back to the apartment... And then boots up animated Japanese porn involving 8-year olds being raped, beats off, and then goes to bed. Clearly this is a totally normal situation and does not involve you fantasizing about children being raped and abused, at all. |
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cyrax777
Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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if your jerking to drawing of little kids its kiddie porn. yeah legaly it isnt moraly it probly isnt but hey its still kiddie porn. just drawn kiddie porn. Last edited by cyrax777 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mint Mania IIDX
Posts: 77 Location: Central |
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Wow. There's no debating going on. It's just all the people who think that lolicon = child porn yelling at and attacking all the people who don't. GJ, guys. |
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