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NEWS: Japan Balances Moe, Military


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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:50 pm Reply with quote
daxomni wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Am I misremembering or did they ammend their constitution not too long ago in some major way regarding their ability to deploy military forces?


It might take more than one amendment to fully open up all their options for offensive attacks, but rest assured that even if it takes a dozen amendments the folks involved will see it through. North Korea's is quite possibly the best thing to happen for nationalistic Japanese interests since the end of WWII.

Richard J. wrote:
Japan's become a great ally and, considering some of the things the Chinese military is working on, I'm really glad to have them on our side. We might need them someday. Or they might need us. The way the world is going, you wonder where the next global war will start. Not if, just when and where.


The Chinese eh? The US has been repeatedly voted the largest single threat to global peace by Europeans during the Bush years. Look how far we've come from a former beacon of liberty and justice to a beacon of blind arrogance in only a few short years. Having a president that firmly believes that the whole world is going to eventually be decimated by his imaginary friend anyway certainly doesn't make me feel any safer. How about you?

First, the ammendment I was referencing was, if I recall correctly, having to do with speeding up the ability of the Japanese government to mobilize and direct military assests for the purposes of peace keeping efforts abroad or defense of the Japanse islands. Also, considering that North Korea could, with no new missile technology developed, launch a major strike against the Japanese, you'll have to forgive me for not thinking them "war mongers" for wanting to be able to defend themselves.

Second, polls are meaningless. There were very few people after the first World War who even thought that another war was possible. People called it the "Great War" and the "War to End All Wars." When Hitler rose to power in Germany, most did not think he was dangerous. While I myself would have handled things differently were I the president, President Bush has hardly earned the fear of Europe.

Third, if the "imaginary friend" you speak of is in reference to the President's religious beliefs, I find your words deeply insulting. I also find it absurd that you would have greater concern regarding President Bush than Iran's leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Both have "imaginary friends" as you would put it, but one actually believes his is directing him to orcestrate the anihiliation of certain people. Oh, and just so you know, I'm talking about Ahmadinejad.

Man, over sleep and miss a political debate. Rolling Eyes
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Iritscen



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 793
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:54 pm Reply with quote
It does seem that WWII Japan is not viewed the same way as Nazi Germany, but that makes sense. One attempted genocide, the other didn't (in any solidly defined way). One got the Bomb dropped on it twice, the other didn't. There seems to be a collective, subconscious feeling in the Western world that, since Japan has been "de-fanged" since WWII, we needn't be too worried about them getting dangerously nationalistic, so let them have their Yasukuni. I tend to agree, but if another Asian country stirs things up, we'll see how things play out.
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JELEINEN



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 253
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:25 pm Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:
varmintx wrote:
The article was poorly researched even for a fluff piece

I think I'd agree there. Having read it several times, I still can't see what it's getting at either. The ability to project culture and the ability to project military force are, and always have been, unrelated. Wars are fought by soldiers, not cosplayers. And what does it matter if the culture you projected is adopted by nations throughout the world, but your cities are destroyed and your population enslaved? Just ask the Ancient Greeks.


Actually, the projection of culture and military power are intemently tied through out history. It's only been very recently, with the advent of mass communication that they've become somewhat divorced (and even this is questionable).
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:05 pm Reply with quote
JELEINEN wrote:
Actually, the projection of culture and military power are intemently tied through out history. It's only been very recently, with the advent of mass communication that they've become somewhat divorced (and even this is questionable).

Of course a conquering nation would often introduce its culture to the conquered, although it did work the other way around sometimes. However, even in the ancient world it was possible to project culture great distances without needing an army to do it as long-distance trade was common even in Neolithic times.
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birdboy2000



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:24 pm Reply with quote
(Shrugs)

The American hawks invaded Iraq, and a good chunk of them are advocating doing the same to Iran and Syria.

The Canadian hawks continue with a controversial war in Afghanistan -- where the enemy is the remnants of a tyrannical theocracy that provided a huge amount of support to an attack on their NATO ally.

The modern-day Japanese militarists are trying to push through amendments to call the JSDF a military and allow it to be used for UN peacekeeping, while retaining the pacifist clauses. I maintain that, for all the fear-mongering and horrors of the past, no nation where Gundam is so popular will ever willingly go to war. Razz
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:05 pm Reply with quote
birdboy2000 wrote:
(Shrugs)

The American hawks invaded Iraq, and a good chunk of them are advocating doing the same to Iran and Syria.

The Canadian hawks continue with a controversial war in Afghanistan -- where the enemy is the remnants of a tyrannical theocracy that provided a huge amount of support to an attack on their NATO ally.

The modern-day Japanese militarists are trying to push through amendments to call the JSDF a military and allow it to be used for UN peacekeeping, while retaining the pacifist clauses. I maintain that, for all the fear-mongering and horrors of the past, no nation where Gundam is so popular will ever willingly go to war. Razz
There were manga propaganda during WW II that had a giant robot crushing New York skyscrapers, so that can change very fast.
I can remember not too long ago the US was reprirmanded for not taking a more active role in implimenting UN resolutions against nations and dictators who are, or were brutal to their citizens and surrounding neighbour and for not supplying enough manpower in the form of military troops to war torn hot spots around the world. It was always the US who would say "we are not the worlds police force" but that all changed 5 years ago this month. Now the US is damned for being too aggressive in world affairs. They are damed if the do, and damned if they don't.
What this CNN report is saying is that Japan has been more successful influancing the world by exporting their art than they ever did by jack booting and invading foreign lands. But for those who live close to the island memories are still too fresh to ever tolerate the Japanese having an offensive military force which they already have, but aren't labelled as such. The strangest thing would be for them to develope nuclear WMDs, then I'd be a bit worried.
To the person who stated that Germany didn't get nuked during WW II, the only reason they didn't was because they surrendered first. Berlin was the original target for the first A-bomb drop.
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birdboy2000



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:06 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
birdboy2000 wrote:
(Shrugs)

The American hawks invaded Iraq, and a good chunk of them are advocating doing the same to Iran and Syria.

The Canadian hawks continue with a controversial war in Afghanistan -- where the enemy is the remnants of a tyrannical theocracy that provided a huge amount of support to an attack on their NATO ally.

The modern-day Japanese militarists are trying to push through amendments to call the JSDF a military and allow it to be used for UN peacekeeping, while retaining the pacifist clauses. I maintain that, for all the fear-mongering and horrors of the past, no nation where Gundam is so popular will ever willingly go to war. Razz
There were manga propaganda during WW II that had a giant robot crushing New York skyscrapers, so that can change very fast.
I can remember not too long ago the US was reprirmanded for not taking a more active role in implimenting UN resolutions against nations and dictators who are, or were brutal to their citizens and surrounding neighbour and for not supplying enough manpower in the form of military troops to war torn hot spots around the world. It was always the US who would say "we are not the worlds police force" but that all changed 5 years ago this month. Now the US is damned for being too aggressive in world affairs. They are damed if the do, and damned if they don't.
What this CNN report is saying is that Japan has been more successful influancing the world by exporting their art than they ever did by jack booting and invading foreign lands. But for those who live close to the island memories are still too fresh to ever tolerate the Japanese having an offensive military force which they already have, but aren't labelled as such. The strangest thing would be for them to develope nuclear WMDs, then I'd be a bit worried.
To the person who stated that Germany didn't get nuked during WW II, the only reason they didn't was because they surrendered first. Berlin was the original target for the first A-bomb drop.


Yeah, but there's a difference between using an art-style as propaganda and a hugely popular anime series. And when said series has such strongly pacifist themes...

(And I know about how quite often brutal things happen in the world, and the international community's slow to intervene. But Japan won't even let its troops become peacekeepers, let alone warmongers!)

Countries do have long memories -- but this goes for Japan as well, plenty of innocent people on the isles suffered plenty during WWII, even despite the Americans not having anywhere near Japanese brutality.

After the second world war, Italy got an army again. They didn't invade Albania, Yugoslavia, Ethiopia, or any of Mussolini's other hangouts. The reunified Germany, for all peoples fears, ended up a leading, peaceful nation in the EU.

And given the immense strength of pacifism as an ideology in Japan -- so great they have to fight hard just to label the JSDF an army, let alone allowing it into overseas deployment even for the best of reasons or removing the constitutional pacifism clause... (Which puts them in a class more with Costa Rica or Switzerland than any major powers...)

Regardless of the past, I just can't see them starting another war.
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daxomni



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Somewhere else.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:22 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I can remember not too long ago the US was reprirmanded for not taking a more active role in implimenting UN resolutions against nations and dictators who are, or were brutal to their citizens and surrounding neighbour and for not supplying enough manpower in the form of military troops to war torn hot spots around the world. It was always the US who would say "we are not the worlds police force" but that all changed 5 years ago this month. Now the US is damned for being too aggressive in world affairs. They are damed if the do, and damned if they don't.


The US is held to a higher standard for several reasons; chief among them is our massive over-spending on military might, our still unmatched global influence and reach, and our ever present involvement in the affairs of other countries. Being the sole superpower in the world comes with an appropriate level of responsibility as well. The idea that America can and should do whatever we please merely because we can is finally being challenged in public. The majority of the rest of the world is apparently sick of watching America act like we own the whole planet.

We jump in and take over whenever we feel it suits our goals, without so much as batting an eye at an eventual 30,000+ civilian deaths resulting from the power vacuum we created (Iraq). Yet we also show blatant ignorance and indifference whenever we can't easily benefit from pushing others around (Rwanda, Darfur, Congo, etc). The days of always letting America off the hook because "it can't be helped" are finally coming to a close. The rest of the world (outside of a few kiss-ups) is ready for a new level of honesty and integrity from the US. The only question is if the US is finally ready to start showing it.
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.Sy



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 1266
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:13 am Reply with quote
Blah. This article could have been more in depth and less fluffy since they put it in the world section. Not that everything under World has to be something depressing about Darfur or the Middle East conflict, but this article doesn't mention "soft power" with enough depth. When I really thought about it, does anime/manga, which spreads by itself through the net, need to be publicized by Japan? Will something like that really help world affairs if the underlying problem is ignored? I don't know enough about global affairs to know the answer to that, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the answer to the latter is no. Not to sound too negative though, it's great that manga and anime aren't ignored.
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Iritscen



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 793
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:51 am Reply with quote
Certainly one can't see manga and anime changing the political views of the old guys now in charge of the world. Of course not.

But maybe the next generation, and the next, will regard Japan more positively because of their influence through entertainment. See my previous post about how most of us grew up playing Japanese games and watching Japanese shows to one degree or another. I think that's what the article's getting at.
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