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PetitePuff
Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 68
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:21 pm
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so they went and did it this time  i was wondering if they would, since you don't have to worry about making future kids
| Natt319 wrote: | | My 10 year old brother is psyched up for this! I don't think he needs to see the male avatar marry a male! I thought nintendo was supposed to be more of a family company! |
to address this specific concern, the FE games i've played have all been rated T for teen by the ESRB, meaning they recommend they be played by someone 13 years or older based on the content (they also can't be purchased from a store by anyone younger unless they have a consenting parent present). Nintendo is primarily a family company, in my opinion, but they have and still do make and publish games with content that aren't necessarily suitable to all ages. 
(note: i'm not saying this game isn't suitable for anyone or will be rated T based purely on the option of homosexual relations, just so everyone's clear.)
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 3011
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:37 pm
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Regarding age rating, it's worth it to note that Fire Emblem Fates/If has the highest age rating in Japan ( C-15 ) of any game in the series. And I'm pretty sure it's not because of the gay marriage (say what you will about Japan's oftentimes problematic attitudes about homosexuality, the mere existence of it doesn't usually send people over their into screaming fits about the children) but rather because of all the extreme sexual innuendo, the skinship, and the incest. And the incestuous skinship with extreme innuendo.
Plus the storyline is apparently a lot darker than in Awakening, especially the Nohr route.
Also, regarding the demographic argument that people so often bring up to insist that gay/bi people shouldn't be in a game, I'm pretty sure that in real life, the percentage of the population that has magical dragon blood is 0%. It's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to exactly conform to real world demographics.
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Levitz9
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: Puerto Rico
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:50 pm
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| Mad_Scientist wrote: | |
Also, regarding the demographic argument that people so often bring up to insist that gay/bi people shouldn't be in a game, I'm pretty sure that in real life, the percentage of the population that has magical dragon blood is 0%. It's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to exactly conform to real world demographics. |
I like to use Dave Willis' explanation for this kind of thing. Having a fictional world would justify having more gay/lesbian/transgender/ace characters, as that would make for a far more interesting cast than a herd of heterosexual men and women. It's reductive, yes, but let's face it: "boy meets girl" is boring.
| _Cyphon_ wrote: | |
Well this is interesting. Big step for Nintendo I guess. Are there incest options? Because it'd be pretty biased to include homosexual couples but not incestual couples. |
Let's not compare or contrast homosexuality with the crime that is incest. Previous Fire Emblem games have implied incestuous relationships between characters (like Genealogy of the Holy War), but incest is still a crime in most parts of the world and there's no real justification of it. Please don't compare it to homosexuality.
That's like the old strawman that legalizing gay marriage would imply legalizing bestiality.
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johnnysasaki
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 927
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:02 pm
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| Levitz9 wrote: |
| Mad_Scientist wrote: | |
Also, regarding the demographic argument that people so often bring up to insist that gay/bi people shouldn't be in a game, I'm pretty sure that in real life, the percentage of the population that has magical dragon blood is 0%. It's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to exactly conform to real world demographics. |
I like to use Dave Willis' explanation for this kind of thing. Having a fictional world would justify having more gay/lesbian/transgender/ace characters, as that would make for a far more interesting cast than a herd of heterosexual men and women. It's reductive, yes, but let's face it: "boy meets girl" is boring.
| _Cyphon_ wrote: | |
Well this is interesting. Big step for Nintendo I guess. Are there incest options? Because it'd be pretty biased to include homosexual couples but not incestual couples. |
Let's not compare or contrast homosexuality with the crime that is incest. Previous Fire Emblem games have implied incestuous relationships between characters (like Genealogy of the Holy War), but incest is still a crime in most parts of the world and there's no real justification of it. Please don't compare it to homosexuality.
That's like the old strawman that legalizing gay marriage would imply legalizing bestiality. |
I agree,but what about cousins becoming couples?Nintendo censored that in Awakening.
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_Cyphon_
Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 996
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:10 pm
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| Levitz9 wrote: | | Let's not compare or contrast homosexuality with the crime that is incest. |
How is incest a crime? I get that there's a higher chance of birth defects, but inbreeding sometimes doesn't lead to genetic diseases until at least a few generations of doing so. And then there's morality concern, but for all I care, if both sides show consent, there's no reason to prohibit it.
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Paulo27
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 400
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:20 pm
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| Levitz9 wrote: | | Let's not compare or contrast homosexuality with the crime that is incest. |
Because birth defects? I get it, but you don't see people shunning 40 year olds for having babies when the risks are just as great.
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Levitz9
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: Puerto Rico
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:29 pm
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| Paulo27 wrote: |
| Levitz9 wrote: | | Let's not compare or contrast homosexuality with the crime that is incest. |
Because birth defects? I get it, but you don't see people shunning 40 year olds for having babies when the risks are just as great. |
| _Cyphon_ wrote: | | How is incest a crime? I get that there's a higher chance of birth defects, but inbreeding sometimes doesn't lead to genetic diseases until at least a few generations of doing so. And then there's morality concern, but for all I care, if both sides show consent, there's no reason to prohibit it. |
Incestuous relationships are inherently abusive and manipulative, given that it's usually an older relative taking advantage of a younger relative who is incapable of offering informed consent. There's also the whole "power struggle" thing, as most younger relatives wouldn't know how to reject the advances of some older member of their family. You're a little pinned against the wall when your older cousin asks to "play doctor", after all. Again, let's not compare a crime with homosexual marriage.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:32 pm
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I really don't know what the big deal is. There's one possible gay relationship and one possible lesbian relationship, and (being optional) neither are forced on you. Pretty tame if you ask me, and hardly worthy of people getting upset about it. If you don't like same-sex relationships then don't choose them in the game, simple as that.
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Paulo27
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 400
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:56 pm
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| Quote: |
| Levitz9 wrote: | | [quote=_Cyphon_]How is incest a crime? I get that there's a higher chance of birth defects, but inbreeding sometimes doesn't lead to genetic diseases until at least a few generations of doing so. And then there's morality concern, but for all I care, if both sides show consent, there's no reason to prohibit it. |
Incestuous relationships are inherently abusive and manipulative, given that it's usually an older relative taking advantage of a younger relative who is incapable of offering informed consent. There's also the whole "power struggle" thing, as most younger relatives wouldn't know how to reject the advances of some older member of their family. You're a little pinned against the wall when your older cousin asks to "play doctor", after all. Again, let's not compare a crime with homosexual marriage. |
Wow, I'm not trying to defend incest but man, that's some projection.
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Levitz9
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: Puerto Rico
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:14 pm
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| Paulo27 wrote: | | Wow, I'm not trying to defend incest but man, that's some projection. |
V
| Paulo27 wrote: | | Because birth defects? I get it, but you don't see people shunning 40 year olds for having babies when the risks are just as great. |
You're a real treat, ain'tcha? (Link takes to a site that explains behaviour behind perpetrators of incest.
Point of the matter is this: there really isn't any issue with Intelligent Systems having a homosexual and lesbian pairing in their games. It's long overdue, especially for the Fire Emblem series, and especially in a greater social context wherein other mediums have made greater strides in presenting a more diverse view of the world.
Any discussion of incest is a pretty transparent attempt at strawmanning, if not besides the point.
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_Cyphon_
Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 996
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:57 pm
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| Levitz9 wrote: | | Incestuous relationships are inherently abusive and manipulative, given that it's usually an older relative taking advantage of a younger relative who is incapable of offering informed consent. There's also the whole "power struggle" thing, as most younger relatives wouldn't know how to reject the advances of some older member of their family. You're a little pinned against the wall when your older cousin asks to "play doctor", after all. Again, let's not compare a crime with homosexual marriage. |
Ok, at first I thought you were just referring to incest as a "crime" because it's legally considered so in most states, but now I see it correlates to your own beliefs as well. The counter you gave is only situational and applies to only a part (albeit it probably is the majority) of incestuous relationships. What about fraternal twins? Maturity wise they are in step with each other, so no manipulation or "power struggle". Also, there have been cases in which the younger sibling is the one initiating the pursue in a relationship. I find it very distasteful that you lump all situations of incest in one big "crime" category. If you are forced to "play doctor", that is not consent. You can argue that minors are incapable of offering an informed consent, which is true, but there are instances where the couple in question is in their 20s or 30s.
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Paulo27
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 400
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:16 pm
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| Levitz9 wrote: |
| Paulo27 wrote: | | Wow, I'm not trying to defend incest but man, that's some projection. |
V
| Paulo27 wrote: | | Because birth defects? I get it, but you don't see people shunning 40 year olds for having babies when the risks are just as great. |
You're a real treat, ain'tcha? (Link takes to a site that explains behaviour behind perpetrators of incest.
Point of the matter is this: there really isn't any issue with Intelligent Systems having a homosexual and lesbian pairing in their games. It's long overdue, especially for the Fire Emblem series, and especially in a greater social context wherein other mediums have made greater strides in presenting a more diverse view of the world.
Any discussion of incest is a pretty transparent attempt at strawmanning, if not besides the point. |
You're the one strawmanning, incest doesn't happen under ONLY those situations and I, too, thought you were saying it was a crime in the sense that it was immoral or irresponsable but to call it a crime because those situations happen is strawmanning.
It's not like humans are hardwired to not never love (I'm missing the word here but no in the family sense but in the "let's have relationship" sense) their siblings or cousins or who have you.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5951
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:36 pm
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| potatopurplexs3 wrote: | |
iirc, that's only in Awakening and the only reason you could do that was because of time travel. |
| PetitePuff wrote: | | making future kids |
If still has the feature of the characters having kids that'll become playable units.
Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Crisha
Moderator
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4290
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:31 pm
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Folks, get off the debate about incest, it's off-topic, and it's just allowing key players in this thread who have already been warned and had posts removed to keep picking at things. All following posts after this on the debate will just get deleted.
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Panzer Vor
Joined: 04 Dec 2012
Posts: 648
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:48 pm
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The thing that really galls me is that the gay option is only in Conquest, the lesbian option is only in Birthright, and the version that allows both is download-only. I wonder what the sales figures will look like for the individual versions.
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