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INTEREST: Code Geass 10th Anniversary Event Teases "Demon's Rebirth" — & Maybe More …


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AnimeLordLuis



Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Posts: 1626
Location: The Borderlands of Pandora
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:16 am Reply with quote
I don't want to get my hopes up but if this means that there's going to be a season 3 of Code Geass than I'm all for it. Very Happy
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Tylerr



Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 475
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:22 am Reply with quote
they'd just ruin it with shitty cgi anyway.
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Mr_SP



Joined: 13 Nov 2016
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:37 am Reply with quote
jroa wrote:
Zero was already believed to be dead once before and he still came back at the start of the second season. Having him return in spectacular fashion to defeat Emperor Lelouch is rather fitting in terms of modus operandi. It doesn't weaken Zero's public image at all but, on the contrary, helps makes it far stronger.

And if you recall, the Black Knights were all under the impression that he ran away to hide after R1. The public could believe anything from that, to escaped capture (Kaguya seemed to believe that one), to actually being a different person, but no one believed he was a different person once he stepped up and proved it.

A notable difference is that the Black Knights themselves announced Zero's death. Without being aware of the betrayal, the only assumption the people can make is that this is a different person. That Suzaku will act in a completely different way will not help the masquerade.

jroa wrote:
Knowing the real identity of the "old" Zero is effectively useless now. But even then, the "people in power" you're speaking about are: a) not too many in the first place. b) not cynical enough when left to their own devices (the more skeptical and/or malicious individuals are either dead or neutralized). In fact, the "new" Zero has just literally saved a whole bunch of them from being executed by the previous one. Even if they ended up distrusting the original Zero, that is ultimately irrelevant under the new status quo.

It actually is relevant. After all, the old Zero was the one to try to execute them - they can't trust the new one blindly, if at all. The new Zero is someone who needs to be investigated. After all, he could be anything from Lelouch to another Geass user, considering he got through Lelouch's mind-controlled security without anyone noticing. If they find out who he is, and some already know, Suzaku is absolutely someone who needs to be marginalized or replaced - he's betrayed everyone he's ever worked for, and his work with Lelouch is enough to be executed for on it's own. (They can't kill him without Jeremiah, but they would try.) If they can't figure out who he is, he absolutely cannot be permitted access to sensitive information, control over any military force, and should not be called upon under any circumstances - Lelouch set a precedent in regards to trust.

jroa wrote:
There are very different types of leaders in real life and the new Zero doesn't have to be exactly the same type of figure as the previous one, especially considering that the world has changed and there is no need to rebel against Britannia. Even Lelouch would have shifted his methods if he had continued to play the role of Zero after the fact.

Assuming, of course, that people ignore that the last two Britannian Emperors were evil tyrants, and never find out that Schneizel killed everyone in Pendragon, and that Nunnally helped, and never remember that Schneizel destroyed Tokyo... A lot of the ending seems to depend on civilians having no pattern recognition at all.

No, the new Zero doesn't need to be the same kind, but no living named character has any reason to trust him, which limits his ability to affect anything. Cornelia and Xingke wouldn't, and Nunnally would clearly have issues. (She might... but that's going to be rough. She tried to kill her not-evil brother? Suzaku did kill him? How is she supposed to get over that?) Sure, he could do heroism... but what? Fire fighting? Terrorists that aren't supposed to exist post-Lelouch? Can we really believe Suzaku, of all people, would be able to give speeches? Zero would just fall into obsolescence - there are plenty of people who can do a better job at being a symbol of the peace than Suzaku, who are more trusted by the governments.
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KH91



Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 6176
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Lawd Geass! Please let this correct the mistakes of the past.
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jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 542
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:45 am Reply with quote
Mr_SP wrote:
A notable difference is that the Black Knights themselves announced Zero's death. Without being aware of the betrayal, the only assumption the people can make is that this is a different person. That Suzaku will act in a completely different way will not help the masquerade.


Conditions have significantly changed. The new Zero has instantly earned a ton of public legitimacy and is the rightful successor to the role by demonstrating he can do something that nobody else could. Not to mention that the Black Knights have already been granted a free Japan. There is no sudden crisis in progress, which makes it very different from all of the circumstances that led up to the betrayal, and their leadership/membership has also changed since then.

The alternative to "blind trust" isn't automatic paranoia and total skepticism, especially since it is a different person and not Lelouch. Intermediate degrees of trust exist. They could certainly discuss things with the new Zero and calm their fears without needing to carry out any McCarthy-style investigation of his background. I don't see that as an impossibility because, once again, the surrounding circumstances are far more peaceful and not the same as those of the previous worldwide conflict.

Quote:
Assuming, of course, that people ignore that the last two Britannian Emperors were evil tyrants, and never find out that Schneizel killed everyone in Pendragon, and that Nunnally helped, and never remember that Schneizel destroyed Tokyo... A lot of the ending seems to depend on civilians having no pattern recognition at all.


I don't want to go into talk about recent politics here, but I feel like you are overestimating the ability of the masses to properly recognize patterns. Let's just say that world history is full of examples where that hasn't been the case, to a greater or lesser degree, so I believe fiction has plenty of room to make assumptions in either direction.

Furthermore, civilians are not truly autonomous when there are politicians involved. Justifications for mass slaughter can always be employed by the victors. Nothing will probably happen unless and/or until it's politically convenient for those who now control the world.

Not everyone who committed, ordered or permitted atrocities paid a price for them at the end of World War II and especially not the Allies. Otherwise, both Stalin, Truman and probably Churchill should have been put on trial as war criminals. Schneizel was an ally of the Black Knights and the UFN during the most recent conflict. I imagine his actions would be publicly criticized in the eyes of history, but for the time being it's very unlikely to happen because his worst crimes are not known outside of a small circle that was willing to work with him before. Nunnally herself only participated in blowing up Lelouch's slave forces during the final battle, not the capital, and those were arguably legitimate military targets.

Quote:
No, the new Zero doesn't need to be the same kind, but no living named character has any reason to trust him, which limits his ability to affect anything. Cornelia and Xingke wouldn't, and Nunnally would clearly have issues.


On the contrary, they all have mutual convenience and need to rebuild as well as strengthen the UFN as the most powerful reason to trust him. Cornelia called on the people to rise up against Lelouch, not against the new Zero, and Xingke (if he's even still around) is arguably smart enough to notice they're all getting something out of this new status quo.

"Fire fighting" is a rather narrow interpretation of what a hero can do in this kind of story. If a war threatens to break out, for instance, he can appear in a new mecha and disarm folks. Actions speak louder than words and, you never know, the guy could learn to make decent speeches in due time.
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Shaone



Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:09 pm Reply with quote
They could easily pull this off. One thing that always bugged me about R2 was the battle between Charles and Lelouch. Lelouch absorbs/destroys Charles' Code and that allows Lelouch to defeat him. It always begged the question did/can Lelouch die if he has a Code? If Nunally can break a Geass after 10 years why can't Schneizel? They could jump 6-10 years into the future and restart all the commotion with Suzaku unmasked as Zero but then the REAL Zero shows up. Anything is possible. Another Code Geass would be better than another Aldnoah Zero IMO.
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